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Comment by mosselman | Hacker News Reader

I used to be a paper purist and I still believe paper is better for educational reading, but nowadays I read my fictional books on an e-reader and couldn’t be happier.

I can take all sorts of books with me and the reader remembers my place in the book

I can read in the dark thanks to the backlight

Reading from E-paper feels pretty much the same as from real paper and the form factor is more comfortable than a 1000 page book

I can read noiselessly, thanks to which I can read in bed at all, or rather, am allowed to read in bed at all because my wife is a very light sleeper and the rustling of paper wakes her up. The backlight here helps too.

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I think for reading fiction, ereaders are great, bascially because you read straight through and illustrations/ equations are not important.

I find for technical books, paper is far superior. The layout is much better for graphics/ equations, plus the traditional layout of a book (with some post it stickies) is optimized for easy navigation/ jumping back and forth.

One thing I miss about paper books is their three-dimensionality. If you are an experienced reader, knowing where you are in the thickness of a book is just as important for navigating the book as a whole as where you are in any given page. And I don't think the GUI bookmarks work quite as well as paper, personally.

Really, it is all about fractions of a second, but it adds up.

(Personally, I don't care about the aesthetics, feel and smell of the paper, blah blah, I just still think paper technical books win for .)

I feel like we're on the cusp of being able to have a qualitatively better technical book using interactive media instead of page flipping, but to date this has not materialized. For casual introductions (i.e. browsing wikipedia) a phone or table is fine, but a technical book that seeks to lead the reader from basic understanding to deep knowledge remains tantalizingly out of reach for anything but a physical paper book.

Being able to rapidly backtrack and sidetrack seems to be the critical issue; paper allows you to do this so easily with a thumb or other improvised bookmark. Hypertext and forward/back navigation and tabs seems like it would be perfect for this, but it doesn't quite work.

Learning effectively from a technical book has to be like lazily reading a detective novel -- you have to be willing to look at the ending. You do this before you're in a place to understand it, and then build up that foundation to the point where it supports what the end goal is going to be. Maybe it's a question of having a writer who can make this idea a first-class one, by repetition and backtracking in a forward direction; effectively first presenting page 8, then 4, then 2, then 1, then 2, then 8, then 2, then 3, then 1, then 4, or some similar scheme to allow the reader to shore up their understanding, while allowing them to skim through parts that seem boring or are too confusing, with the knowledge that they'll have another chance to review the material, without having to manually backtrack.

The content being a website with hyperlinks would solve most of this. Keep pages open in tabs and bookmark them.

The act of clicking on links and adding bookmarks, well, just doesn't feel the same as interacting with a physical book. I think the 3 dimensionality of the book adds intuition, cues, and a coherence that are lacking in the free for all of hyperlinks.

I also think an experienced reader can navigate more quickly (yes fraction of seconds) in a physical book than possible when you have to set bookmarks and use them in some drop down system.

I would love to see a human factors study comparing hyperlink eReader versus paper book.

I have been thinking about this in the context of my own reading habits and how they have changed over time.

I have read textbooks with a lot of patience spending way more time per page, letting the content sink in, thinking about it, taking notes on the bitsy corners of the book etc. However, these days as a professional, when I read tech books, I could see myself rushing for facts, and "how-to"s instead of deeper reading. May be I'm getting older? Wiser? Falling into Attention Deficit Disorder? I don't know. But, I do know that if a tech book does "8,4,2,1,2,8,2,3,1,4" like you said, I'm lost at third step, finding something else where I can get my facts quick...

This is where interactive books could jump in and help keep the attention in place with more relevant information in view instead of needing repetition.

I remember Apple tried something with a free app called iBooks Author. I need to spend more time with it and see if I can make use of it for some tech stuff.

Relatedly, my tabletop RPG group is about to start a new campaign, and for the first time I've finally picked up a paper copy of the players guide. Just gets so tiresome paging back and forth through PDFs and 25 browser tabs to find what I want to reference. Much happier to just have a physical book with a dozen sticky note bookmarks poking out of it.

Agree, hard to go back to paper once you taste the convenience of e-readers. My main grievance with e-paper readers is that it's really not practical to take notes or to highlight stuff in books - sometimes the selection is just awkward, and typing is very slow. Another issue is that you can't have your books sitting around for everyone to look at like in a bookshelf. I think this is somewhat damaging because I discovered a lot of books I would have never read just by looking at other people's bookshelves. In the digital era this is just not as easy to do, and recommendations tend to show you what people like yourself like, but its not the same, and bookshelves can be good conversation starters too.

But apart from what I described, E-readers pretty much win on everything else.

I went back after a few years experimenting with an eReader. I mostly read history and fantasy books which often have maps and images that are generally illegible on an eReader. Some books offer aesthetic treats as physical objects that are totally lost in eReader form (e.g. Steven Johnson's Wonderland). Flipping back to check on a previous passage/reference a map or just generally browsing through a book to see what's there are also terrible experiences. I enjoy the physical presence of books in my home, many of which have little tab notes for quick reference back to passages I've enjoyed. I can share/pass on/donate books that I no longer want. Finally, the eBooks were generally no cheaper than a paperback, and often cost more. It offended my sense of justice to pay the same or more for an electronic book that has no printing or distribution costs.

> no cheaper than a paperback, and often cost more.

True, this is certainly something that does not make sense, market-wise. The good thing though is that you can get all the books that are now public domain for absolutely nothing (even Amazon has tons of old books with 0$ price markings).

I love reading digitally, and I love my e-reader. My only peeve is that for some reason, no one makes a pocketable e-reader. I would love a smart-phone sized e-reader, maybe a 5-6in screen at most.

Kobo made one for a while, but has since EOLed, as well as Papyrus IIRC.

As a consequence, I tend to read on my phone, but it's not nearly as comfortable as reading on my e-reader, and I tend to get eye fatigue much more quickly.

> no one makes a pocketable e-reader

Funny, I went for the exact opposite. I had a Kindle paperwhite and purchased a Kobo Aura precisely because I could get a 7 inches screen. I'm much happier with a larger surface, and I read all the time in public transports.

I'm kinda on the same boat. I love physical books and have hundreds of them. There are some books that are, in my opinion, best read in physical format -- generally old books, because there's more than just the words to add to the story (feel, smell, etc).

But I consume almost all my modern sci-fi on an e-reader of some persuasion. That, too, adds to the story.

>There are some books that are, in my opinion, best read in physical format -- generally old books, because there's more than just the words to add to the story (feel, smell, etc).

So those books were worse when they were published because they didn't have that old book smell and feel?

Stop being abrasive for the sake of being abrasive.

I am of the same persuasion, but my parents are the opposite. For them, the physical dimension of a book is a prerequisite to their enjoyment; turning a page is their little dopamine hit of achievement. When they travel, they get anxious about ruining a "precious" e-reader, whereas a cheap paperback can get abused with rain or sand with little thought - possibly even a hint of pride for turning an object into a unique memory.

Then again, they hate flying, and travel in a campervan...

The _disposability_ of a paperback is a distinct advantage. I dislike abusing my books, and love finding older ones that have survived in a used bookstore, but at the same time there's comfort in knowing that, if I lose it, or leave it on my car, or drop it in a bathtub, or I accidentally run over it with my car, or otherwise ruin it accidentally, I've lost only a small amount of value.

Similarly, I can buy a slightly damaged book and still enjoy it, or give one to a friend and not worry if I get it back.

I actually prefer buying used books because of the patina of them being worn.

I purchased a sony DPT-RP1, and while the build quality leaves something to be desired (panel gaps), It is the first tech product in a while that had a little bit of that magical feeling to it. I don't have to truck around all of my textbooks anymore, and the epaper means my eyes don't tire as fast.

(I do not work for Sony)

The only thing that would make electronic book-reading, for me, replacement for paper books is guaranteed, 100% future-proof integration.. like, I need a book-reader that will last 50 years at least, have the ability to store books and retrieve them (i.e. zero lock-in), be solar-powered, and most important of all, an actual feature of books nevertheless unmatched by computers, user-maintainable at the hardware layer.

I think we have a way to go, but I'm sure there are devices out there that will last 50 years or so, as a place to put all the books I've loved...

Until then, I maintain a fleet of computers of course, however under the known circumstance that when the lights go out, there'll be not much to read.

Fiction can be moving and transforming. The typeface, cover, colour, and smell of a book can work as mementoes -- when I pick up a book I read when I was 23 it might remind me who I was then, and it might remind me of the journey to where I am now.

Very true. There is less charm to e-reading and that is why I was hesitant to start reading this way. In the end, though, I think e-reading offers many practical benefits over paper and these allow me to read more. So it becomes reading more with less charm vs reading less with a bit more charm. In the end, reading more wins.

I was very proud though when my then 13 month old daughter pulled 1984 off a shelf and walked over to me proudly carrying it. "She is woke already" I said. An e-book can't beat that.

I read about 95% of books on my phone. It's just so easier and more comfortable to hold.

> I can take all sorts of books with me and the reader remembers my place in the book

This is by far the biggest reason I'll continue to use my Kindle. I still buy certain physical books, but being able to take my entire library with me is so useful.

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