Founder’s Guide to the Y Combinator Interview
atrium.co
atrium.co
Unfortunately when I got into the interview, by the time they had asked the third question it was clear they had completely misinterpreted what I was doing. I knew in less than a minute into the interview that there was no chance I would be accepted. What I should have done was try to stop the interview and completely reframe what I was doing in a different context so they could more clearly understand. However, the 10 minutes goes by so quickly. The interview started and ended before I came to that realization (I did however try to interject at the last 30 seconds with some key points, but by that point it was too little too late).
I believe my situation was an exception to what normally happens given the nature of my company, but it was really disappointing to feel like I never got the chance to explain the unique insights I had into the space, how the company was managing such insane growth, and the vision for the future.
"Unfortunately, we've decided not to fund SwiftDemand. We were really impressed with the number of participants you have on the platform and the fact that people are doing transactions. However we struggled to convince ourselves that there was an underlying big business here. If this is going to be something that is economically meaningful to people to allow them to live on it, then it would be hard to for this to also be a billion dollar company and would probably be better suited to a non-profit."
The email shows two big misunderstandings in how SwiftDemand works. It's on me for not temporarily taking control of the interview once I realized the lens they were viewing SwiftDemand through.
Well, since an HN comment isn't under the pressure of a 10-minute speed date and you can take control of your own narrative right here in this forum... Can you gather your thoughts and explain in 1 or 2 concise sentences how SwiftDemand works?
Your concise sentences should basically answer:
+ What's the revenue model? Is it memberships/subscriptions or ad revenue? Why would the buyers (consumers or businesses) pay money into the SwiftDemand ecosystem?
+ how SwiftDemands YC's $150k seed investment at 7% equity turns into ~$50 million. (Those example numbers assume YC's 7% being diluted twice down to ~4% with subsequent investments, and a ~$1+ billion dollar exit valuation.)
Your webpage mentioning "everyone gets 100 Swifts a day" and "3% fee" doesn't really explain the commercial _value_ of the UBI blockchain. This would also explain the motivation of _why_ people would pay non-Swifts currency like $USD to convert it into Swifts UBI blockchain.
Your other comment summarizing it to "to become a global currency that focuses on social economic good in the form of UBI" doesn't really connect the dots of how YC gets a ~$50 million return on their investment.
A little more info on the revenue model:
There are 2 main streams of revenue, the first comes from transactions on the platform in which SwiftDemand receives a fee similar similar to that of Amazon. The second is that SwiftDemand receives Swifts for each identity that it manages (payed by the protocol itself). If we continue our growth we think it's more than possible to get 100 million users on the platform receiving $1-$10 per day generating around $0.10 to $1 a day in revenue per user that would put yearly revenue in the 10's of billions.
More details and justifications:
The first thing that needs to be understood is that there are essentially two separate pieces. There is the underlying Swift Protocol and then SwiftDemand itself. The Protocol is essentially a decentralized government with 3 components, Swift Citizens (regular people), Delegated Nodes (elected officials that have voting power and can forge new blocks), and Identity Providers (companies that can approve Swift Citizens and are responsible for preventing people from creating fake accounts). SwiftDemand is an Identity Provider that sits on top of the Swift Protocol.
SwiftDemand is incentivized to bring more people onto the platform since Identity Providers receive Swifts for each Swift Citizen that they actively manage. Identity Providers are also kept in check by the Delegated Nodes as they have the ability to remove Identity Providers that act poorly. If an Identity Provider did not have the motivation of profit, people would be less likely to create competing providers fostering less competition which would lead to a weaker ecosystem. We believe having a capitalistic system that is kept in check by the decentralized government is the optimal strategy to make the Swift Protocol successful.
To the numbers. We already have nearly 500,000 registered users with Swifts currently being value at somewhere around $0.001 to $0.005 based on transactions in the marketplace. User growth should remain relatively easy as our pitch to consumers is simply "sign up and receive free money" and we have achieved our entire userbase without any paid marketing. The trickier part is growing the economy part to the point where the value of Swifts can increase to $0.01 to $0.1 per Swift. We already have over 5,000 submitted products on the marketplace (mostly people that believe in SwiftDemand selling personal services), however our intention is to partner with bigger companies that can utilize our userbase essentially to give out promotional offers and consequently transition that into a larger economy over time. Based on our early adoption these numbers aren't unreasonable and should be more than achievable making SwiftDemand a strong investment opportunity.
To answer your other question:
- Why would people pay non-Swifts to buy Swifts?
Unlike most other currencies we're not really focused on getting people to trade between Swifts and non-Swifts. Our goal is to create a new currency with a fair distribution model. Our vision is to have people collect their Swifts, use their Swifts to buy goods and services that interest them, allow people to sell goods and services to receive more Swifts, and essentially create an entire economy without any need to convert their Swifts to non-Swifts or vice versa.
Other:
I'm curious if you have any suggestions on a better way to pitch the business opportunity to investors (YC and other). The consumer pitch is relatively straightforward as the value proposition is clear, but I do think I struggle on the investor side.
To me, your text focuses too much on the Swift currency side instead of the $USD side. For investors, the $USD is more important since that's the currency they get their investment multiple from. Even if your end users are adding products&services[1] "in kind" (instead of paying $USD) to transact in Swifts, you still have to concisely explain how $USD gets into the business. You must have a clear explanation of non-Swift revenue.
Because you emphasized the Swifts instead of $USD, this leads to paragraphs that has a circular feel to it (we get paid in Swifts from Swift transactions) -- like this one:
>There are 2 main streams of revenue, the first comes from transactions on the platform in which SwiftDemand receives a fee similar similar to that of Amazon. The second is that SwiftDemand receives Swifts for each identity that it manages (payed by the protocol itself). If we continue our growth we think it's more than possible to get 100 million users on the platform receiving $1-$10 per day
That paragraph explains getting Swifts from other Swifts transactions (circular) -- and then suddenly it switches to them being worth $10. If a user is selling "20 HD wallpapers" for 500 Swifts, that doesn't explain how an investor gets a percentage of multiple transactions that are "worth $10" with a Swift-to-$USD exchange rate. Let me give another example so you see the confusion in that type of writing:
You want YC investment of $150k $USD. Using your lower estimate exchange rate of of $0.001-to-Swift, you basically just need 150 million Swifts. Therefore, you could create a new identity account called "ycombinatorswiftinvestor" and give it 150,000,000 Swifts. It's your system and therefore, you just create 150 million Swifts out of thin air like a central bank. Your funding problem is now solved.
Obviously, that currency-swapping explanation would be unsatisfactory to you. You need the $150k of $USD more than 150 million Swifts! Likewise, your investors also need to understand the $USD cash flow more than the Swift transactions!
Further down in your comment is where I think you get closer to explaining the potential commercial value that attracts $USD:
>, however our intention is to partner with bigger companies that can utilize our userbase essentially to give out promotional offers
Is the idea to charge companies for "promotional offers"? (Like advertising?) Is that where the bulk of $USD revenue comes from? If so, you need to make it prominent and clear. (Instead of the revenue mechanism being buried way down in the comment after explaining technical things like SwiftDemand being the Identity-provider while Swift is the protocol, etc.)
Again, let's work backwards from a $1 billion exit valuation. Using a ~10x multiple of annual revenue as one possible valuation model, that's $100 million a year. If you're charging companies like Proctor & Gamble, Coca Cola, Toyota, etc to expose your users to their promotional offers, you have to present a convincing financial story that shows why those companies would pay that. You need to explain why they'd find your audience (userbase that want UBI) to be valuable to them.
Yes, I can see that you envision Swift to be its own large financial ecosystem without dependence on $USD.[1] (As a semi precedence, Bitcoin itself started out being worth $0 -- and then somebody seeded it with real economic value by trading 2 pizzas for it in 2010 -- which then lead to $19k-per-bitcoin in 2017.) Swift could theoretically experience a similar virtuous cycle of people adding more and more goods & services to Swift. But that growth is irrelevant unless one of the services _inside_ of Swift ecosystem is a bank that converts Swift-to-$USD. (Because YC and VCs take their returns in $USD.) Therefore, the $USD that comes from outside Swift via promo fees takes precedence and must be convincingly projected as $100+ million in revenue.
As a side note: your Swifts protocol+marketplace to provide UBI is well-meaning but it also has some economics flaws (e.g. disincentives for value creators). I don't see them being addressed in your FAQ[2]. My comment is long so I won't go into details but I suggest you discuss your UBI digital currency with people who like to study game theory of incentives and behaviors interacting with freemarket price levels (goods priced in Swifts) and an expanding money supply (everyone receives 100 new Swifts every day).
[1] got the Swifts marketplace link from your Medium post instead of your landing page: https://www.swiftdemand.com/store
Ouch. I started to write a reply to this but it ended up being more appropriate as a blog post as it cascaded a bunch of thoughts and feelings. https://www.ryanmercer.com/ryansthoughts/2018/10/30/an-open-...
But your idea is bold and worth trying, definitely. Bravo on that. I find it odd that YC did not pick you up on that alone.
I can also see why you might struggle to communicate it.
I have some small points if you care to take them, they are just examples of some tweaking, for what it's worth:
Small thing for your '1 liner' statement instead of saying 'Swift is an attempt at' - drop the word 'attempt'. Also it could be more clear:
"Swift is a digital basic income for everyone"
... is a little more concise, it's very bold but doesn't sound arrogant either.
"Swift is a digital currency that we issue in the same quantity, to everyone who signs up, at the same rate, in perpetuity.
Swift is not backed by anything (so it's only worth what people attribute to it), but over time, as people find consequence, we hope that it will develop material value.
One day, with your help, we hope to disintermediate authoritarian central banking systems which favour one economic class over others, and to provide subsistence for everyone, by everyone."
Where you can replace the last sentence with something else, if you want, but it's nice to end with a hint of a bold vision. That I think explains it, and also has hints of boldness and universality, with a little 'populist antagonism' towards 'those evil bankers' without being crude, i.e. more aspirational, and it doesn't sound arrogant.
You can get into the 'digital now, crypto later' thing in the next para or whatever, that's obviously important (crypto crowds will be early buyers) but not essential.
Anyhow, just my two cents.
It's a great idea though. It's worth a try. Good luck with that.
SwiftDemand is a fairly radical concept so initially I was worried that making claims too bold could come off as arrogant, but since we have now gained a lot more traction we should definitely revisit the copy on the landing page.
I like the conciseness of the 1 liner you proposed, the three sentence explainer is great as well, but we aren't necessarily looking to disintermediate the banking system, but rather to become a global currency that focuses on social economic good in the form of UBI.
A huge portion of our users are really focused on the crypto aspect of what we're doing. As we continue to gain a broader appeal we will likely de-emphasize the crypto part.
The struggle to communicate it was a problem with how YC perceives UBI due to their involvement in UBI research. They grasped the concept quickly, but the questions they asked were targeted primarily at whether or not it would be enough to actually support people, as well as my thoughts on current UBI initiatives rather than the market opportunity and underlying business. In short, they saw it as a charity and didn't dig deeper into the revenue model or vision.
Thanks again for your comments.
I gather that.
It's just an emotive idea that will likely resonate with boty a) those interested in UBI, who more often than not believe the current financial regime is repressive and supports banks and b) cryto currency types who loathe banks and classical currency controls more for anarcho-libertarian reasons.
It's marketing.
Because you are not a classical product, you gotta be a movement, you want to give some emotive impetus! Most people need a call to arms against some faceless regime, it's more powerful than a call to charity. You can drop it after a while.
These motivational inclinations are real with the early adopting crowd. Anyhow, just something to think about in general, really.
This is the opposite of selling your product (I'm not sure if a word exists for that). Which is a shame because the idea sounds really cool.
We were rejected, the reason: No market.
To YC's defense... they interview so many incredible founders.
We grew between 10% and 30% every months since. So in the end all good.
Our team was also rejected in 2013 with conferencebadge.com... that time we bombed the interview and were really bad. The business has now grown to 7 figures a year.
Both businesses are still managed by our small team of 3 co-founders and one employee and are quite successful. We own 100%.
What if we would have made the cut... who knows...
The key difference is we offer internal chat (no tied to external conversations) and the UI is more akin to your email client. You consume everything from an Inbox.
Missive really feels like a snappy email client, a lot of our paying users even use it alone (not in a team context) just because they like the UI. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j95F4sr5Qdw)
For example: - I want to mention my A/B testing framework I built from scratch - that could be used when answering questions around conversion rate optimization - I could be asked to elaborate on that if I said: "...in my life I've seen some truly crazy and unintuitive ideas that unexpectedly drove a lot of growth"
It may seem too complicated to pull off during an interview, but all you need is just a few good bridges to fill a long conversation with nothing but talking points that are 100% aligned with your strengths.
We applied to YC for the second time; unlike the first time, we haven't been accepted to the interview.
Justin's guide is great. I wish there were another guide on "how to interpret an outcome that you didn't expect". :)
The last time, after the interview, they rejected us and provided specific feedback.
When you memorize data points, you actually become more familiar with it, and you can say it with more confidence, more naturally. You've said it so many times it's like walking.
I just object to the whole 'study study study' BS that is now normative for interviewing, because it's encouraging 'gaming the system'.
YC had their biggest hits with the 'loose' style, maybe they should go back to that.
I'm lucky to have largely avoided it, but having to create and do pitches all the time is utterly annoying. If it were for customers yes , then essential. But for others ...
One approach would be to give no advice at all, to be totally quiet about intent and motivations, so you catch people in their natural states.
Finally, I would hope they are collecting data on all of this.
I'd love to see the A+B test on 'interviewed but passed and interviewed but rejected'.
It's all in the delivery though, right? You can make a passionate case for your current traction by stating metrics with conviction. You can also recite them in a very rehearsed-sounding way.
I think the point here is to show that you know your stuff. instead of saying "we're growing rapidly" or "approx doubling users every two weeks", have numbers to demonstrate your command of the situation.
Basically, "I need to answer X, and phrase Y is a good way of saying it", rather than "Better memorize this 5 sentence script answering that question".
In situations outside of interviews like this, I've stumbled over things I should have known simply because I had the butterflies. I wonder if I had rehearsed, maybe it would have solved that slight hesitation you alluded to?