The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean
bbc.com
bbc.com
Needless to say, that all the trash ends up somewhere. Maybe not so much in percentage, but you will definitely find litter every few meters. The difference to my hometown in Germany is, that the litter there stays for years but also not so much new litter per day is produced. Maybe the Singaporeans should place more public trash bins or get some moop bags.
Singapore is actually getting better on reducing disposables, though slower than I would like. Cashiers don't double bag items anymore, and try to pack as much into one as possible. Paper takeout boxes and bags have replaced styrofoam and plastic in many places, and it's currently trendy to not offer plastic straws for drinks.
Another reason for disposable chopsticks, (though this applies more in China, Taiwan and Malaysia) is that the customers may not trust the hygiene of the place they're eating in. Disposable chopsticks are cut with the centers intact so it's impossible to put them back together and resell them.
Disposable plastic > poorly cleaned reusables.
I ate a lot of it and never, ever got sick.
Here's my golden rule from which I never deviate:
Make sure that you see how they cook the food on premises
It needs to be well visited, preferably by locals
Would a western health inspector tolerate the setup? Hell; no!
But, so what?
Sure, you can stick to the hotel restaurant of The Intercontinental in Bangkok, but you'll be hardly any safer than eating on a wobbly table in some small soi in the area.
But man, will you be missing out...
> Disposable plastic > poorly cleaned reusables.
FUD from germophobes, IMHO.
Most hawker stalls charge an extra 20 cents or so for takeout, which helps them recover the cost of the container. I think that's a good compromise.
15 years ago, it wasn't like that. People bring their own tupperware to do take aways. All the cutlery were washed and cleaned. This meant more time and energy from the hawkers. In the name of efficiency, low cost, disposable plastic/styrofoam/chopsticks is a convenient solution, unfortunately.
Also, you say Singapore doesn't feel like a very clean city to you, but you don't have any examples. Certainly Singapore is very clean compared to any European/German city of the same size, or anywhere else in SEA.
I'm also German, living in Singapore for 6+ years.
Naming one case that might stand out: Lau Pa Sat's stalls almost all use disposable cutlery.
One thing I definitely know is that the stalls have bans on handing out napkins, which both serves to give the poor a way to make money and reduce the amount napkin waste by pushing the cost to you. I also think it's fairly common for residents to carry their own reusable utensils with them when they go to places like that.
"Analysis of the NEA data by Reuters shows that plastic waste per capita has increased nearly 20 percent over the last 15 years. Areport by the local Straits Times newspaper in March said each person in Singaporethrew away an average of 13 bags a day in 2016.05.06.2018" [0] and more plastic bags in [1].
But like some one already mentioned the amount of recycled construction materials is remarkable [2]. As I am not an environmentalist nor a plastic hater I wasn't looking for litter or trash here. But anyways it was enough to make me wonder. Now I am definitely interested in the numbers in comparison to other cities.
[0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-singapore-waste/in-singap...
[1] https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/cnainsider/monstrous-sc...
[2] https://www.nea.gov.sg/our-services/waste-management/waste-s...
Trash in Singapore is burned and the ash becomes reclaimed land.
https://www.facebook.com/nasdaily/videos/how-singapore-clean...
Source: go visit Pulau Semakau where the waste-to-energy process takes place.
Love them or hate them, but you have to admit LKW and the PAP just got to work and transformed the place. But somehow managed to keep the good food (though the food in Ipoh remains the best).
Six executions so far this year. Most recent: October 26, 2018.[1]
[1] https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2018/10/425285/prabus-fin...
In San Francisco, if I count the number of jurisdictions I fall and pay taxes under, I get a number like 7, the typical City/State/Federal tier (minus the County tier as SF is unique in CA for consolidating that into the City tier), and at least 4 special districts that are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
Singapore is 1 City 1 Nation. I’m not an expert on precisely how they govern themselves, but it must really help cut through administrative overhead and bureaucracy when the national government is effectively also the local government, responsible for police, fire, the environment, the parks and playgrounds, utilities regulation and national defense.
So if they want to set aside a line item for city cleanup right beneath national security and the public healthcare system, they have the option without debating further past public/private for whose responsibility it is. The government can take the tact that it is either its responsibility or it isn’t, without the complex tax system imposed by several different entities that the US has getting in the way. No federal grants to grant, no support legal challenges in 50+ court systems and various appellate court districts to overcome, no multi-tiered incentive structures, just, “do we have the budget?”
There are certainly more advantages to be had for larger countries, but there are also certain quality of life advantages to not having to be a large country, as long as you are rich anyway.
But they seem to approach it very differently.
I seem to remember Spain being quite clean too. People mopped the pavements in one of the towns I visited every morning.
Plus, are states much smaller than Japan as clean as it is?
And there are places comparable in size to Singapore that are garbage-lands.
It's not like size is the key differentiator.
Perhaps that’s ok in busy central locations where a street cleaner will be along shortly to pick it up, but the problem is that people are now accustomed to dropping litter and do the same in suburbs, parks, and countryside where it just accumulates.
How do we solve it? We need to teach environmental education in schools and try to stop littering habits before they form.
But also, I think a great application for robotics technology will be litter picking, street-cleaning robots!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bomb_attacks
So not a completely idiotic policy.
But recent terror attacks (which used knives and vehicles, not bins) prompted their removal again.
We need to teach common decency, adults need to set better examples, and the cops walking the street need to start ticketing people for littering - whether it's a fast food bag or a cigarette butt.
So, they're not the same, then? Those willing to walk a couple of steps to throw things away weren't littering before.
If something is easy, then you get into the habit of doing it without even thinking about it.
That is not the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. But it's close.
Lighter-weight solutions were later introduced that limited the ability to place large objects in bins, or substituted large bins for clear plastic bags supported on a frame. These are still reasonably prevalent, though there could definitely stand to be more of them around London.
Last time I was in Victoria Station in London, there was one alumin(i)um hoop with a clear trash bag, emptied constantly.
I have not been either place but maybe somebody who have can compare to cleanliness of both places?
Singapore is very clean in major areas (downtown, main streets, neighborhoods, etc) but not different than e.g. London in poorer ones.
Not a lot of people have this mentality.
Like all countries, it has its issues, but consider:
- Freedom of religion particularly stands out
- It has great and affordable health care
- It's safe
- Very easy to do business
I could list more. Maybe freedom means something different to you than to me. Like I said, there's definitely room for improvement, but I think they're doing way more right than wrong.
E.g. If you smoke, you gonna hate Singapore. Because if you get caught smoking in the wrong area, you will be fined. If you throw the butts on the floor, you will be fined if an officer caught you.
Drug is one thing if you cannot live without, you shouldn't come to Singapore.
The real test of freedom is when something goes wrong or you challenge the authorities.
One Straits Times (local Pravda) story I recall was about one of those old ladies who cleans up in hawker centres, earning on the order of S$100/month. This is way below a living wage, even in Singapore, and there's no state pension in Singapore either, so this was the sum total of her income. Because she couldn't afford an apartment, she slept (illegally) on the "void deck" (ground floor, exposed to elements) of an HDB housing block.
None of this was news, mind you -- the news was the fact that somebody stole her life savings of $50 from a cookie jar, and this is not permissible in squeaky-clean Singapore.
Many maids are also kept in modern-day slavery, working 365/24/7 and literally locked into the apartment so they don't run off and get pregnant, in which case the maid is forcibly repatriated and the owner is fined.
More eye-opening reading here: http://twc2.org.sg/
In order to get a maid in Singapore you have to pass a test. They are also paid ~500-700/m which is a lot more than they earn in their own countries. For example the minimum monthly income in Cambodia is roughly ~120$. So they earn a lot more in Singapore. Also maids must be given 1 day off per week.
Now every single person I know who has a maid treats them well, a co-worker of mine who is Indian paid for her maid to go back to India for 2 weeks while she went on holiday. This sort of thing is not uncommon.
Now that doesn't mean there are not bad apples in Singapore, I've read stories of maids who have been locked up and not paid, or forced to clean the outside of windows on the 20th story of an apartment block. But if caught, those families get in a lot of trouble. In asia, everything is about face, that doesn't go for just the families, in singapore it's the country too. So they put a lot of effort into ensuring people are safe and protected so it never gets a bad reputation.
> earning on the order of S$100/month
This is rubbish. The entry level for a cleaner is $1000/m, not $100, the salary goes up if you're skilled in operating cleaning machines and such, not just picking up trash. Also the government subsidizes salaries of workers over the age of retirement.
Singapore doesn't have handouts. You don't get handed money because you're old or unemployed. What they do is if you as a company hire someone over a certain age, the government will pay a portion of the salary. This is why Singapore has many workers who are old, and why tax in Singapore is so low.
Housing is also subsidized if you're a low income earner, or little to no family support. You still need to pay rent, but its a fraction of what non-subsidized renters pay.
It's not a question of "bad apples", but the system being stacked so heavily in the employers' favor that it effectively tolerates if not outright encourages abuse. The kind of thing that ends up in the courts and newspapers is only the tip of the iceberg: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-see-more-cases...
Note how frequently the employers threaten their victims with repatriation or the police!
Re: homeless cleaner lady, the story in question was ~10 years ago, but my understanding is that it was not a formal job, but some sort of off the books/cash in hand arrangement -- hence the $100 figure, which was indeed absurdly low even at the time. And not everybody can afford even subsidized housing:
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/cnainsider/singapore-ho...
You been to lucky plaza on a Sunday? Chaos. Mustafa? Botanic Guardens? Gardens by the Bay?
These places are littered with maids every weekend. Some maids choose not to go out. 2 friends of mine have maids, and both their maids go out for 1 hour on Sunday to send money back, then come home, because they don't want to waste money.
The vast majority of maids live happily.
This is another case of "the minority ruin it for the majority". A few Muslim extremists have made a lot of the world think majority of Muslim people are bad people, when the majority are really awesome.
So yes it is a question about a few bad apples.
My argument is not that all Singaporeans are monsters, or that all foreign workers are oppressed, but that simply that the system as it is today has very few protections against the abuse of its most vulnerable, and the OP's claim that "all Singaporeans love it" is pretty darn starry-eyed.
There's no such thing as a society without any injustice but in my experience the vast majority of maids are pretty happy with their lot and many spend decades in the service of one family. Indeed, I have often thought the maids in Singapore are happier than their bosses. Certain people will have issues, probably unsolvable, of any economic structure which allows anyone to have a maid but it's far better than what the alternative is.
That's an overly simplistic and inaccurate analysis. The protection of private property rights, and the freedom to contract, which collectively you call "ruthlessly capitalist", is what generates the economic opportunities that allow people in Singapore to hire foreign workers.
Without the market rights you are critical of, many of those foreign worker jobs would not exist. If you think the foreign workers would be better off in their home country, you have a naive understanding of migrant labor.
Which Asian countries do you think have it better, in this respect, than Singapore?
Yes, there are some restrictions in terms of political activities and free speech. But, in my opinion they are a small price to pay for the generally safe/progressive/modern/clean society. Is it perfect? No, but still beats living in any other Asian society except perhaps Japan.
The level of competence of local civil administrators is overstated. All Singaporean oldtimers I knew were quietly lambasting their incompetence, but what you can give them is that, while being really mediocre at that, they were doing their job, and did it consistently year after year.
This is shows how far an institute of civil administration can go by "simply having people who simply do their job." This is what I see less and less in Western countries.
Regarding cleanliness, clean for sure, but Shenzhen central districts are by far more "squeaky clean." :D
Regarding Singapore's economy - pale and waning away. The country has an own economy for sure, but it is no longer a global player.
Before China's accession to WTO, a double digit of GDP was coming just from stamping "made in Singapore" on Chinese goods and reexporting them. The day China acceded to WTO, was almost a national day of mourning there.
Since then, Singapore's economy made a U turn, and became a gigantic offshore heaven for Chinese money. They don't really have any other major source of wealth other than that now.
LKY don't deserve to get credit for his "genius" for simply turning a country into an offshore bank.
To me it sounds like the worst kind of dystopia possible. The wrong mix of medieval and futuristic: you get flogged or killed for silly things, the economy is effectively feudal, and if you are ever somewhat happy about something (wow! no mosquitos!), this does not last long when you realize the sad truth (they have poisoned all their freshwater to kill all mosquitos and fish and frogs). Honestly, I would prefer to live anywhere else on earth before scary, inhuman Singapore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_Death_Pena...
For example, chewing gum is forbidden for good reason in Singapore, vandalism is heavily punished, simply carrying drugs is a capital crime. All of these sacrifices in individual liberty actually make Singapore a much better place than US to live in.
Singapore also has a democratic process in their government. Given that most Singaporean are contempt with their government, there is no sign that people want one that maximizes liberty.
This is a worry - there is no feedback loop unless government makes sure it is.
On the other hand, if current government really can't control who will be elected next, then there is less chance that current government abuses power. And having armed citizenry reduces chances of government going totalitarian.. or so they say.
Does everyone buy/carry water every day, or how do they survive?
So outside people will buy water even if a fountain was available.
Of course everyone still boils their water...
[0] https://www.wsd.gov.hk/en/core-businesses/water-quality/buil...
I've never been to South Korea, yet.
I've traveled all over Japan including those places and others far more rural and never seen that, it sounds really strange. Are you sure it didn't say you can drink the tap water? Maybe in broken Engrish?
Only places I've seen in Japan with warnings against drinking tap water is on trains and porta-potties.
You probably misunderstood, or perhaps the hotel staff were all sharing the same oddly wrong english handbook...
And perhaps suggested you buy some bottled instead?
>“These standards will keep morale high, sickness rate low, and so create the necessary social conditions for higher economic growth in industry and in tourism. [...]"
It's interesting that Singapore has, with this policy, become one of the very few unambiguously successful, unambiguously tropical countries. HK/Macao qualify, but historically had more support from their suzerains. Otherwise you've got, like, maybe Mauritius and Barbados. The desert oil nations would qualify, but their dryness prevents disease.
However, I recall about 20 or 30 years ago, the cleanliness was much better, probably while Lee Kwan Yew was still in charge. I would see businessmen in suits stop and pick up cigarette butts in the street and bin them.
But in more recent visits, I notice locals walking past litter and butts more casually. It is still better than most cities, but I think the fastidiousness has worn off a little with the latest generation?
If you're one of the statistically poorer ethnic Chinese or Malay, hustling to make a living, working in hawker centers, peddling some ware, running some small shop, trying to make a living, etc, you're more likely to brush with various laws and restrictions.
Some cultures also dislike restrictions more, and paradoxically that's truer for Chinese culture I find, than for British. Chinese culture might be ok with strong government and even straight-out dictatorship, but they are more laid-back, cheaty, work-aroundy etc in their day to day life (consider London vs Beijing driving for a crude example, or queue lines). I guess, less "by the book" is the term I was looking for.
(And yes, these are generalizations -- they're needed to talk about the world in any other way than on a case by case basis)
Hawker style food + stalls with no trashcan == rubbish.
I love Singapore, but like Bangkok, Taipei, Hong Kong, its a constant battle to deal with nature, and social behaviour.
Not returning your dishes is a different thing from littering.
If it's custom in a locale, it seems reasonable to leave your plates ... it's what we do at regular restaurants.
But not throwing rubbish in the streets - this is universally a good thing.
I sometimes see people throwing water or coke bottles out of their car here in Montreal I find it maddening that someone could be so crude.
Kids and Teachers doing a one-over, such a great idea. I believe it's probably strongly linked to creating conscientious behaviour overall.
I also believe there are strong psychological effects (i.e. 'broken windows') - if people see a slum, I think they're more likely to treat it as such, and visa-versa.
After working there, I briefly tried to get a full time job there but ended up accepting a job in the US. Singapore rocks!
Coming back from it, it looks to me as one of the most boring places on earth. Everything is indeed crazy clean and it reinforce to the fact that it looks as a place with no soul.
There is almost nothing to do beside working, going to the Casino or the mall. People like Singapore because it is clean and everyone speaks English
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18333236.
A: “X seems to have positive utility. I wonder if it is sustainable long term.”
B: “You should wonder if your utility function is suitable for any term.”
How is it ideological?
P.S - I never heard the term “idiological tangents” before. According to Google you are the only one using it. I’d say that’s a Wofelooperga.
(But this is in principle self-balancing, so even if the people that live there are unrepresentative, perhaps it doesn’t matter.)
Edit. Thanks for the downvotes for pointing out literal bigotry. Wtf hn.
An obsession with shiny appearances. Hygiene and cleanliness? What a joke. So many meat shops don't store meat in a cold and clean place. Plenty of hawkers are far from clean.
> There are 56,000 cleaners registered with the National Environment Agency. There are likely thousands of independent contractors who aren’t registered. Mostly they’re low-paid foreign workers or elderly workers.
This says everything. It's easier to keep the city "clean" when you have slaves.
There are legal statutes regulating this [1], and the enforcement agency (National Environment Agency) responds to all complaints about potential hygiene issues pretty fast.
I've reported some borderline cases where I felt that the places weren't storing cooked food properly, and I've always gotten a response including a statement that officers visited the place.