Hacker News Reader

MIL-STD-810G doesn't really mean anything unless they have test results available. That standard is mostly just a list of lab tests and how to perform them. It could mean anything from the product is designed to comply but never tested all the way up it passing the whole gambit of various tests. Military hardware is going to actually be tested if the manufacturer wants to sell it to the government. No one is regulating the standard for consumer hardware. IP codes at least mean something in regards to what the product is supposedly designed to handle, whether or not the rating is legit is another story.

Cool, thank you. From a quick glance at the wikipedia page I saw that it could mean a whole bunch of different stuff, or almost nothing.

I'm just glad my phone is still working after dropping it in water this morning!

My Nexus 6P has pretty much zero waterproof rating but I've dropped it in the sink face up before with the full stream falling right onto the screen. The front speakers are a little quieter but it still works otherwise, I thought for sure it would have been an instant death. Unless you have a real IP rating, it's a crapshoot how well your phone works under harsh environments.

What does T-Mobile know about hardware repairability? They’re a carrier aren’t they? They don’t have anything to do with any hardware.

They sell phones along with their service so presumably they'd have an interest is selling people quality phones so they can capture more profit for the same total customer spend. but it's hard to beat the planned obsolescence model if they get a cut of the new phone sales

(I freely admit this is naive and idealistic)

I'd like to see T-Mobile, or some other corporation with similar influencing power, promote the right to repair. I chose T-Mobile because they have this (PR generated, for sure) image of bucking the big telcom trend and "putting their customers first".

I feel that it's another niche that could help people. You have the rugged phone niche, the kid phone, the simple phone, etc etc. A repairable phone might be desirable to some people.

T-Mobile is an UNcarrier.

And to the extent they can, providing top level customer service is one of their biggest selling points.

They have a huge infrastructure of fixed hardware, of course (their phones have to talk to something) and certifying & deploying that requires plenty of EEs and a surprising amount of hardware development (and getting in deep with their vendors).

Things have changed since I was a supplier to that industry but it used to be that the carriers really did certify the terminals. GSM (well, the SIM requirement), and then in the US the iPhone, changed that so I don't know how that end works today.

In addition T-mobile is a subsidiary of Deutsche Telekom which does still do quite a bit of hardware development, though I'm not sure how close the links there are.

(plus they are a huge channel)

To the extend that carriers curate the hardware they sell in their store (and for some carriers, support on their network), they could provide some sort of indication of how likely it is to be fixable. T-Mobile has a reputation of caring slightly more about their users than other carriers in the US, so they might be a good target.

Fixing phones could be a reasonable side business for their phones, so it could work out as a win-win for them -- if you buy a fixable phone, they would probably be able to fix it for you it's broken.

So, a shade of black that is slightly less black than VantaBlack™?

The LG V20 is not listed as being waterproof at all. The MIL-STD-810G covers a great many things, and it seems likely that the V20 was tested for impact resistance, not waterproofing.

Huh, I had no idea. I very vaguely recall being told it was immersion-proof by some review or other back when I first got it.

I will make sure it is fully dry and no damage has occurred.

Thanks for letting me know, I appreciate it a lot!

What exactly would qualify a phone as user repairable? I'm guessing something could be repairable by users, but the costs of the tools are prohibitive. Would that be considered user repairable or would cost of materials and tools have to factor into the equation?

iFixit actually has a rating system for that: https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability

Thanks! That list is really cool! Interesting that only a few phones have scores of 10. One of them is called Fairphone, which actually looks like it would be a nice device.

As far as I know the Fairphone 2 is the only phone with a score of 10. Coincidentally, I have one, and it's pretty amazing. I can detach and replace the screen of the phone without even needing a screwdriver.

> but the costs of the tools are prohibitive.

A device being repairable does not equate to the device being repairable by the owner only.

The cost for a tool could be prohibitive for a single person but would still make sense for a professional third party repair company.

There is an apple official repair video for the replacement of a battery on the iPhoneX (IIRC) -- and its comically complex process to replace the battery - and requires this specally constructed aluminum scaffold-like rig structure to apply the appropriate adhesion pressure. The device is custom made for apple by some machine shop in the south bay, and obviously unlikely available to plebs-like-us... (I can't find the video any longer - apple likely had it removed)

My point being; if apple has such stellar HW designers, 1. the fact that they needed a ~30 minute official training video on the proper replacement which required 2. a custom rig to install the new battery which was 3. only made by some small-ish machine shop in san jose is mildyinfuriating....

I think that a measure of HW design prowess should be service/repairability as a base KPI for considered being 'good design'.

I don’t really think the government needs to legislate this. I buy iPhones because I don’t give a shit about repairability. I use the phone for 3-4 years and then set it up as basically a remote control in my house until it’s useless. If I break it out of warranty I throw it out. Other people who care about repairability can buy other brands.

Recycle your Apple devices by returning them to Apple. You might get in-store credit:

https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in

Except hardware and software are patentable. If we didn't have that and companies could make true alternatives, sure, but as far as technology goes it's highly monopalistic. Your argument is also the definition of selfishness given that you only take into account your own circumstances. You're literally advocating against yourself.

No, I’m saying that different peoples needs are different. I’d rather have the phone 1mm thinner than repairable. You may be different. Companies should compete for our custom.

i honestly don't think any significant fraction of iphone buyers care about repairability. if they do at all, i really doubt they care enough to compromise on price or visual appeal / thinness. could be you're the selfish one trying to bend the entire industry towards your fringe interest.

I don't think GP is selfish - he's just outlining what works for him and what his use-case is. For example, I kind-of care about repairability, but not enough to go through the effort of switching from the iOS echosystem.

Finally, what's wrong with being selfish? I think it's a completely rational approach to take.

I don't have a problem with selfishness, however, I do feel like not caring about repair ability of a device is a bit more complicated. Plus, apple likes to bully people, just take a look at the recent seizure of Rossmanns batteries.

Frankly, this is a much bigger problem. The world is moving to everything being a subscription rather than true ownership. Often, people that once did not care will start caring eventually. When your macbook pro breaks and you can fix it yourself for $100 but the apple store tells you it will be $1000....your point of view will shift drastically.

>> If I break it out of warranty I throw it out. Other people who care about repairability can buy other brands.

One of the many reasons I don't use Apple products. I don't want to throw away technology because the battery wears out, or the screen cracks. Setting aside the environmental nightmares, I don't want to participate in planned obsolescence. My phone dies when I say it can die, not when a manufacturer deems it time for me to give them more money. I also don't throw away cars when their paint chips or the radiator leaks.

I buy mostly Apple specifically because I find the build quality ensures they last the longest. I'm still using a 2009 Macbook on a daily basis, and my youngest daughter is using my original iPhone 4.

The good old Consumerist Mentality that will be the downfall of humanity.

Everything should be repairable and everything should be repaired, you should not "toss out" electronics in 3 years (or in 18 months like Apple would prefer you toss out in)

The enviromental costs alone should be enough to require this, given your mentality I am sure you do not properly recycle it, but even if you do send to an electronics recycling facility most of them are operating in less than ideal or environmentally friendly ways especially when it comes to Apple contracts given that Apple requires the shredding of all devices and they can not be refurbished or reused

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. Recycle should be the LAST option not the go to default.