Basic features that will hopefully return to the MacBook Pro | Hacker News Reader

Basic features that will hopefully return to the MacBook Pro

techcrunch.com

45 pointskostaddin80 comments

> When Apple first launched MagSafe, the company loudly proclaimed they did so because customers kept breaking the connectors that plugged into the laptop. You know, like what’s in the current MacBook.

I have a new MBP and I don't miss the MagSafe, to be honest. Mostly because I have the USB-C power cable connect through a USB-C hub -- what I lose in the usability of MagSafe, is mostly made up in flexibility. And with Apple using the USB-C standard, I can buy any USB-C cable I want, including ones much cheaper and more durable than the Apple-branded cords. I have 3 MagSafe adapters from previous MBPs and they are all worn out at where the wire connects to the adapter block, with no cheap way to replace them.

Let's see how the USB-C female connector fares after the same amount of use. Something tells me it'll be busted long before the cable part wears out.

All Apple cables seem to have a weakness where the cable joins to the connector. A short PVC tube is no match for a gradually tapered part found on some Ethernet cables. And the fact that the user usually just yanks the cable instead of pulling on a tiny connector part...

There's an art to designing strain relief. Apple doesn't bother with it.

I have a new electric kettle with a plug that incorporates a ring into the strain relief -- your fingers will always grab the ring to pull it out of the outlet, and that's where the cable-to-plug connection is strongest.

strain relief, did not know that term. thank you.

USB-C has been designed so that the male part is less resistant than the female part. This way, the connector on the device will see less stress and should last longer.

Obviously they won't be last indefinitely, especially for a connector used as much as a power input. And I have no idea if all the connectors follow properly the standard regarding materials.

But given the built quality of Apple cables, I doubt we will see the device connector wear before the cable is ripped apart by natural degradation, after 1 or 2 years.

Same here. Actually I like the fact that I can now plug it in to power from either sides.

I do miss the Escape key though..

control [ is the escape character, if useful...I use it in vi that way all the time.

Or just map Caps-lock to Esc..

Or buy a ThinkPad X1 Extreme, it comes with a functioning keyboard including a dedicated escape key! Upgradeable RAM to 64GB and plenty of ports are a bonus.

But the OS? Ubuntu & Elemetary font rendering feel like thorns in my eyes.

Windows is OK, but then you have to have a VM for any dev work.

The hatred of strain protectors is the issue here - MagSafe with strain protectors would make me happy. Bare wires, cellotape and dubious safety is what the clean design has actually achieved.

I don't see how Magsafe and USB-C are mutually exclusive. Also, if Apple wanted to, they could have given their Magsafe adapters pluggable cords, so you don't have to buy a new adapter when the cord frays.

There are USB-C magnetic adapters available.

eg. https://www.amazon.com/usb-c-magnetic-adapter/s?page=1&rh=i%...

That'll be the way I'm going moving forward.

See my other comment about my dislike of MagSafe, especially MageSafe 2 here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18258495

I was originally on board for comments like "If a person buys a MacBook Pro and iPhone, that person cannot connect their iPhone to their new MacBook Pro without buying an adapter or cable."

But I can't remember a time I've plugged my current iPhone into a computer, ever. I had the original iPhone, where I had to plug it in constantly to manage music, sync contacts, and update the OS, but it hasn't been like that in my experience for a while.

I never plug it into my computer to sync, but I often plug it in to charge. Plugging it into the wall to charge would require carrying an adapter, which would be annoying.

This is it exactly. I still need to charge the thing, and I often have it sitting next to my computer. So I charge from the handy port I've got right there... with an adapter.

How do you reinstall OS or make non-iCloud backup without computer?

Is reinstalling the OS on an iPhone really a thing? I can't imagine that any significant number of people do that. Non-iCloud backups are probably more common but still extremely rare, as are any backup solutions that require more than a few minutes to set up and permanently automate.

I’m reinstalling OS every time instead of updating. I don’t trust automatic updating and I like the feel of new device.

For the first part, probably just take it to the Apple store or just "factory reset" it. I don't think the average apple user cares enough to completely reinstall iOS themselves. Same goes for non-iCloud backups - the average person probably doesn't care enough to do backups normally, much less plug it into their computer manually. I'm not saying you're wrong, but rather taking your complaint with a grain of salt. It's sad but the average apple user (from my experience) doesn't care.

I can't think of a time I've wanted to reinstall the OS. I've wanted on several occasions to factory wipe the device (trading in the phone, fresh start, repurposing it, etc), but "Reset all content and settings" is an option locally on the device.

As far as backups: as a matter of general data hygiene I don't let my iPhone or my laptop be the source-of-truth for anything. Contacts sync to iCloud and Google, Photos to Google and Dropbox, etc etc.

Worth noting for folks who don't use Siri that the TouchBar contents are customizable. I was in the same boat as the author, accidentally activating Siri non-stop, and then I figured out I could just remove that button.

System Preferences -> Keyboard -> "Customize Control Strip" button

It’s a bad sign when setup involves turning so many things off. On iOS for me it’s keyboard clicks (worst feature ever) most notifications, Siri, those notifications that tell me travel time to home every hour and reachability.

Whoa, great catch! ;-)

Kept hitting the (disabled) Siri virtual button, and it would unhelpfully offer to enable it every time.

Annoying, but at least there's a way out!

Really.. I’m reading an article about MacBook capabilities written by someone who doesn’t know how to customize the touchbar??

Like the author of this article I tried to like it, and just couldn't do it. I use non-touchbar MBP at work, but now only use an iMac at home. Thought I'd miss the portability of a laptop but a year later I haven't missed it at all.

A small but noticable benefit is no longer having an internal debate on whether or not to bring the laptop traveling, since I can't. Being on vacation without a computer (iPhone aside) is the way it should have always been.

This is exactly what I plan to do! After the new year I’m going to buy a new iMac and a full keyboard and a used MacBook Air with the intention of using then as my non work computing environment for as long as I can, hopefully 5-10 years. And maybe by them computing will be in such a different place I never have to worry about a touchbar or shitty MacBook Pro keyboard again.

The elimination of MagSafe is nearly too painful to talk about. It was magical. Now it’s dead.

Here’s how it worked: The power cable was magnetic. Instead of sticking into the laptop, it connected to the side of it. If someone tripped over the cable, the cable would harmlessly disconnect from the laptop.

That feature was really removed? I've accidentally yanked the power cord multiple times on my laptop. MagSafe saved the hardware from major damage.

Yes. The magsafe adapter is gone. You now have receive power via USB C.

Good riddance!

In my experience MagSafe 2 ruined the MagSafe connector design. It’s nearly impossible to use MagSafe 2 in anything but a stable flat position. Forget using it while laying down.

Also, I work in a metal fabrication workshop, which means the brass contacts and their housing on the laptop side of the MagSafe 2 connector on my MacBook Pro are now blanketed and burned from poor contact due to metal dust interfering with the connector.

There are aftermarket MagSafe type connectors for the new MacBooks. This is a superior design in my opinion because it makes both sides of the connector replaceable.

That should say * blackened and burned*. Touchscreen keyboards + autocorrect + not proof reading = bane.

I had to switch to a newer non-magsafe Macbook Pro, and it has been less of an issue than I had thought. The USB-C cable pops out fairly easily if you (eg) catch it on your foot and drag it, or walk with the computer without unplugging it.

But it's definitely not as good as Magsafe - if the angle of the cable is not out from the computer (say it's being pulled back under the computer) the connector may not pop loose and you might end up with it detaching from the wall charger instead (it's nice that the cable plugs in at both ends). And if you drag the cable there's a good chance the computer will drag a bit, too, rather than staying still like it would when the Magsafe connector detached immediately. So, you could still end up with the computer on the ground because it dragged a bit before the USB-C connector detached.

The most Apple solution to that I can think of will be to create a magnetic USB-C port on the next generation of Macbooks, that will require an additional adapter from magnetic USB-C to USB-C.

> The power cable was magnetic. Instead of sticking into the laptop, it connected to the side of it. If someone tripped over the cable, the cable would harmlessly disconnect from the laptop.

Worth pointing out that there are third-party MagSafe-esque wrappers for USB-C like https://www.snapnator.com/

it sticks out - magsafe was flush

I use a 2013 MBP and I agree with this article in that I don't really want to "upgrade" to a Macbook without most of those features. In fact, even the 2013 is missing some features compared to the 2011:

* The old style Magsafe, where the cord comes out the back instead of the side. I still feel that one was superior.

* Accessible RAM. I upgraded the RAM in my 2011 from 4GB to 16GB for a fraction of what the 16GB in my 2013 cost pre-installed and soldered to the motherboard.

I can live with these, though. I absolutely will not buy a computer that doesn't have a real escape button - I don't actually use any software on my mac that I couldn't use on Linux, other than Apple Developer software, and that is not my primary function, just something I do sometimes.

Other than that, I do agree that the tabs on the power supply are pretty sweet. I think I would be fine with USB-C power, but it would be kind of nice if they didn't do away with perfectly good QoL features just because.

Is the hard drive and battery still user-swappable on a 2013 MBP? I have a cache of MBAs to last me a decade or two, but I'm always interested in other options if I come across them inexpensively.

The hard drive is easy to swap. The orginal battery is glued-in, so not so easy. My original battery is still going strong 5 years on though. One thing about Apple products that has always impressed me is the battery life and longevity.

What i'd really love is if there was a service where I could pay a technician to take previous generation Macbook Pro with it's excellent keyboard and no touchbar and transplant a new logic board with modern 8th generation intel processor, 16gb of ram and an nvidia max-q gtx 1070 (or AMD equivalent) into it, complete with working USB-A ports. I wonder if it could still fool MacOS into thinking it's a real mac without having to go the hackintosh route.

That would be the perfect laptop.

Does anyone know anyone who has done this? Could you get something like that done in China?

Ha, that's going to thermal throttle like nobody's business. Just get a proper laptop if you want specs like that.

I find the Touch Bar to be incredibly dim and low-resolution compared to the monitor or display of my iPhone.

It doesn't relay a lot of practical use. The removal of basic features like MagSafe and the little power LED's is maddening. The removal of the classic white glowing Apple on the back is practically an announcement that they're not even the same company any more.

I do iOS development for a living, and I'm rocking a 2018 15" MBP, and I'm very disappointed if this is the future of Apple.

I saw the end coming when they removed the breathing standby led from the Unibody design.

I finally can sleep in the same room of my MB without remembering to cover it every night.

I actually really like that the power block can be separated from the charging cable now. Yeah the tabs may have been nice, but the base of the cable would always get mashed.

The arrow key layout gets me cursing faster than anything else. I simply can't reliably find them by touch.

Truth .:.

Lies |:|

I miss the separated power button. Having it on the corner of the keyboard is bad ergonomics.

I still have a 2010 MBP. Maxed out the ram, dropped in a standard 2.5" SSD, and it's doing fine.

You need to worry about the battery degrading at this point and what the costs to repair it would look like

Batteries for this model are quite easy to replace, and pretty cheap.

yup. I've done it twice now.

MBPs from that vintage didn't have the battery glued in. Anyone with fine motor skills can easily do the repair themselves for $90 in parts and tools.

Good luck getting those in the next MBP. Once a company exceeds a certain size, the normal rules of designing a product for the users stop applying.

Mag safe, headphone jack, multiple USB ports, escape key - why were they removed? Who made these decisions?

I might add a lack of dedicated PgUp/PgDn/Home/End keys on larger laptops. There's plenty of space, but no, we are going to use the same keyboard for all of them (makes sense from a supply perspective!)

We've still got the headphone jack.

That's the big "One more thing" they've got for us at the end of the month. "No more headphone jack!" (Crowd erupts in applause.)

I want an Ethernet port again... but that seems even less likely. So far Dante audio does not work over WiFi! :-(

Mildly unrelated, but many split-keyboard designs put an arc of thumb-keys like this http://xahlee.info/kbd/i04750/keyboardio_m1_rgb_44488.jpg

There's plenty of opportunity for normal rectangle keyboards to put 2+ new metakeys below space bar, and almost none of them do.

But what about on a laptop - could there be key chords where the thumbs are on the trackpad? Could you have right_thumb_trackpad_top_right + j/k for PgUp/PgDn (picking from Vim bindings) ?

As a developer, I would rather have a single key press than a chord.

By the way, on Apple keyboards you can get six extra keys by holding down the “fn” key:

fn + delete = forward delete

fn + return = enter

fn + up/down arrow = page up/down

fn + left/right arrow = home/end

Headphone jack's still there on the MBPs, unchanged.

> I might add a lack of dedicated PgUp/PgDn/Home/End keys on larger laptops.

Yes, and then you can put full-sized arrow keys below them in the inverted-T!

Exactly!

But that will break the wonderful rectangular design.

Since I had to buy a new adapter for MBA I totally love that they ditched MagSafe where cable was permanently attached.

Also because I use a cheaper MBP I still have an Esc key. And I don’t have a single dongle and don’t understand why would I need it.

I also love they keyboad very much — would be great if they could make it more reliable but I prefer it to the old one on MBA.

Two things the author forgot: 1) A non click clack keyboard 2) Antiglare screen!! Glossy screen has no function at all, apart being fancy.

It's getting harder and harder to deny the proposition that Apple's business model is selling adapters.

Not a returning feature but what about a Macbook that updates with the lid closed? Or is that asinine?

In answer to your question, that would be asinine. That's one of the few things Apple has (almost) consistently gotten right on their laptops—close the lid, it goes to sleep. Period. I can't describe how frustrating it is to use computers that think they are smarter than you (or are just unable to work properly) and stay on when you close them.

Except, that doesn't happen like you described it. A process can "prevent sleep", at which point closing the lid will still leave the laptop running (you can view apps/processes that do this in Activity Monitor - there is a separate column titled "Preventing sleep").

http://www.chriswrites.com/mac-refusing-sleep-figure-whats-k...

Gave up trying to say NO to gdpr cookies after 3 pages in.

All of these features are on my mid-2014 model.

Due to the design of the case, the bottom has bowed out from temperature changes, but the battery is fine.

Shame what they did to the new ones. I ended up getting a Razer Blade 13” to use at home, which seems tantalizing close to what new MacBook Pros should be.

Whoa--if'n you're getting bowing, you're likely looking at an expanding battery, which is bad news. Get that to Apple repair ASAP!

I opened it with a special screwdriver and it’s fine and flat.

There’s no where for the metal to go when it expands and contracts during temp changes, so it bowed out, in its little creviced area it fits in. Nobody told Apple to surround metal with metal or how apparently.

It gets down to freezing sometimes, always shut off and I warm it up to room temp before turning it on, 8 or so hours.

How does your MacBook Pro work after being repeatedly frozen? Or sitting in a hot car? If you don’t do this, you wouldn’t know.

How many of these articles need to be written? Seriously, just buy a different brand of computer. There are plenty of us who don't care about these "features."

The keyboard is great. USB-C is great. Buy some new cables and get over it, already.

The current state of Apple users is pitiful. Wishing for features that were removed? How can you support a company so much for caring about you so little?

If they never removed features, Apple computers would still have serial ports and scsi busses. I'm not saying I don't miss many of the features in this article, nor am I being an Apple apologist, but sometimes you need to take a step back before you go forward.

Don't be disingenuous, there's a difference between moving to USB-C and removing the damn esc key. In any case, I don't want to get caught up in details. I was just expressing my pity towards people like the author of the linked article; do you really think Apple is ever going to listen?

Just a point worth mentioning: if the MacBook Pro is actually "marketed to professionals," then the removal of the SD card slot makes a lot of sense. No "professional" is using an SD card; they are using Compact Flash, CFast, XQD, 2.5" SSD, or a proprietary interface.

Canon 5D cameras can use SD and CF cards simultaneously. I personally use the "less professional" 6D, which is SD-card only, but even for the "more professional" 5D users, it makes sense to me that they might want to load JPEGs off an SD card onto their laptop for quick editing, and RAW images off a CF card onto their Mac Pro.

[EDIT: though, of course, if you're already hauling around a laptop and an SLR camera system, it's no big deal to keep an external card reader in your bag too...]

Professional what though? Just because a pro photog has CF cards in all his cameras don’t mean there aren’t other professions where the pros need an SD card.

Field recording and audio engineering people might have audio recording equipment that use SD cards.

Software developers working with Raspberry Pi might appreciate having the SD slot built in.

And also, just because the photogs don’t need SD don’t mean that people in other professions never need to transfer photos from SD.

Probably a lot of journalists have cameras with SD cards. You can’t always bring a photographer for every article that you write.

I get what you're trying to say, but given that the 5D Mk IV still has an SD slot as does the D850 ("second tier" cameras to be sure, but still the work horse of a very large majority of professional photographers), it's not really that accurate.

And I say that as someone who uses CF in his 5D4 (with SD for overflow, or simultaneous writing for more critical events).

I disagree. The pro models are nearly entirely owned by enthusiasts and power users in my totally-representative sample. These people like options and are happy to pay for them.

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