Show HN: Occupod – a solid mobile sleeping shelter | Hacker News Reader

Show HN: Occupod – a solid mobile sleeping shelter

occupod.org

73 pointsoccupod62 comments

"No Place For The Living" seems... rather the opposite of the intended message.

On a more technical level, many pallets are chemically treated to prevent insect damage. The chemicals used for this treatment can be quite hazardous; sleeping on top of a damp, chemically treated pallet is practically a worst case.

> sleeping on top of a damp, chemically treated pallet is practically a worst case.

Worse than sleeping out in the rain?

Is it wise to compound homelessness with chronic health issues and permanent disability? Methyl Bromide is frequently used for pest mitigation of pallets and their contents, and pallet cargo can also leak onto pallets (and you won't be none the wiser).

Even in an absorbent material like wood Methyl Bromide will dissipate within a week. It's very rare for a pallet to be discarded within a week of being shipped and but if you are super cautious you can just wait a week.

Toluene, Benzene and Ethylene dichloride on the other hand are used in all sorts of materials like glues, and will be out gassed for months. Kids toys, phones, shoes, furniture, paint - normal houses (as opposed to Occupod's) are full of them. Provided you are little careful with the painting, I'd take the Occupod any day.

In the case of chemically treated pallets quite simply yes.

What is so bad about chemicals?

Skin burns, lung damage?

The whoosh is that simply using the term "chemical" as something that is bad is irresponsible.

I get it. But that's an old pedantic saw. I understood from context perfectly well it was about the particular chemicals used to treat cheap wood pallets.

People smoke and do lots of other stuff that is unhealthy in the long term but that gives them what they need short term. I'm pretty sure that given the choice between sleeping in the rain (which I could not) and sleeping in a shelter with some probability (probably unknown to me) of issues in the longer term I would pick the shelter.

Also, I thought the design was rather light on ventilation and I wonder how you'd deal with things like mold and fungi. All in all this is a crappy solution for a real problem, props to the person that came up with it but in reality this is not a solution, merely more problems and a way to declare the problem solved so we can pretend it is no longer a problem.

Btw, look for the letters "HT" on pallets when you want to re-purpose them, that indicates the wood was heat treated rather than chemically treated.

Yes. Rain doesn't contain methyl bromide, which can cause cancer and permanent damage to the lungs, kidneys, and nervous system.

Nice bit of cheap woodwork from scrap materials, but the main problem this will run into is that most jurisdictions will apply (or bend) laws about parking and temporary structures to take away and destroy your wooden trailer shelter.

Or, in the case of Hungary, make homelessness illegal entirely. https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/15/europe/hungary-criminaliz... / http://abouthungary.hu/fundamental-law/qa-on-the-upcoming-am...

Homelessness is a complex social problem that requires quite a lot of social intervention work to fix. It's not something that can be papered over with a wooden shelter.

You're right that homelessness is a complex problem. However, taking steps to protect lives (or even just improve comfort) isn't papering over the problem. I think taking tiny steps toward a solution, even limited in scope, is still a very helpful thing to do.

Homelessness is an incredibly simple problem with an incredibly simple solution: build more housing. Since this is not a step in that direction, it does not seem like a "step forward" to me. If anything, all these "occupods" do is widen the social divide between homeless and housed people..... While poisoning the homeless with chemicals from the wood pallets. LMAO at this misguided attempt to do good that actually does harm.

Build more of that good ol' free housing that capitalism loves to provide?

No just build more housing in general

The studies have been done bro, there is only one solution and I just described it

Also we don't actually live in a capitalist system, health care and housing are already socialist in many many ways. It would be easy to pass govt regulations making it easier to build housing. Capitalism is not the problem because we don't actually live in a fully capitalist society dude.

I'm not sure which studies have you so convinced that one overly simplistic thing can "solve" homelessness. This paper from 1991 does a great job of laying out the dozens of different factors which make homelessness such a complex and challenging issue to address: https://scholarship.law.umn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=...

A lack of affordable housing compounds the challenge, but to say housing is the only solution when it isn't even a good partial solution misses the entire problem.

They will do that because if you don't you end up having to powerwash the streets with bleach.

The worst part is that it isn't even about money. SF spends a huge amount of money on the homeless, but it doesn't solve the issue because many of those sleeping in public are unable or unwilling to accept that they live in a society and that it rules do apply to them, as well.

I don't much like Orban, but if a community does nothing, what you will eventually get is something like that.

Why don't you just tell the poster straight-out that they have wasted their time; if only they'd talked with you first they could have spent that precious time working for real change. For shame indeed.

lmao

Interesting but I think I'd rather have a backpack carrying a tent, sleeping bag, and pad. That's a fine shelter used by backpackers everywhere in all sorts of severe conditions, with much easier and less conspicuous mobility than rolling this thing around.

Those things do not provide any physical security though, which is a very real concern for homeless people. In fact, the sort of lightweight, high-quality equipment that most backpackers choose, would likely just invite theft and/or violence.

Indeed - they are also easier and simpler to replace as needed - and take less looking after. I wonder how long these will last without upkeep? How far can they be pushed, and if left static, where would they be left without risk?

From my own observations, I'd say that owning big 'things' like this is just going to cause trouble for the average homeless person. If it is 'good' then they will be at risk of others on the street taking it from them, or passers-by destroying it for fun.

Also not sure I'd want to be inside something like that with the kind of people you get in city centres at night, walking by - people have been known to set fire to sleeping homeless people, or at very least urinate on them. So this could either be a perceived risk or something that you might not want to use after a short period.

Remember - people sleeping rough aren't /just/ looking for somewhere to sleep. If they were then they'd be camping out in the woods etc (I know some do), but often they have other issues (drink, drugs or mental health problems) and they base themselves centrally to have access to drink/drugs/money/support.

While I applaud the concept, I'd far rather see some more holistic support for the 'homeless'. And while I'm left leaning, even capitalists should see that costs of not supporting those with issues, can be far higher than the cost of supporting them (I read before that the average homeless person 'costs' Camden council (who look after Soho in London) about £16k - while those they can get into a hostel and provide support to 'only' cost about £6k.

This looks like a worse version of a teardrop trailer. There are many DIY guides and templates available on how to build a them, like this one: https://www.instructables.com/id/Teardrop-Trailer/

Totally different purpose ?

That looks much more expensive

I think if a homeless person had a car to attach a teardrop trailer to, they would sleep in the car.

It's hard to get an idea of scale in these pictures, so the pods seem impossibly small and unlikely to fit a whole person.

A picture of a person laying inside for scale would help.

The floor is a standard 42" pallet.

I have never tried laying on a 42" pallet - have you? I really can't say if it's too small to sleep in.

A simple picture (even a stylized, human-sized vector drawing) would put debates about whether this pod is too small to bed.

42" is slightly over half my height, hard to imagine this being comfortable

To be fair: If I'm given the choice of sleeping outside without protection or sleeping in one of these, I'm gonna take these. I think it is a horrible choice to have to make, mind you, but neither is comfortable. I'm gonna guess I'd not be stretched out on a city street either.

But if you are going to build a pod why not build a slightly bigger pod that fits you?

It looks like there is a hinged floor that folds down and is covered by a tarp. That should get to about 80"

Ah, you're right. That's not at all clear without parsing through all the instructions - there should really be a photo of one set up.

I personally want to give folks proper housing. Minimally a room with a private bath and lockable door with shared kitchen spaces (if one is single) or proper housing for a family.

But if a dry and possibly secure pod was what I had available, I'd take it. If I had the choice of one that allowed me to move around more and stretch out, I'd take it. If I had the choice of indoor plumbing, heat, and so on, I'd take it.

It would be more comfortable than a doorway.

So how are you supposed to sleep in one of these?

fetal position

Interesting. I miss a description of the design decisions ? Like why there is an angle of 45 degrees on one size. An overview of the final outside sizes would also be nice.

Lots of critical comments in this thread. But I applaud that the OP made the effort to try and help. That is more than most people do.

"Unlike a tent, an Occupod is a solid mobile sleeping platform that rolls down a sidewalk and provides safe sheltered sleeping at night."

Unlike an Occupod, a tent isn't easily rolled off a cliff or into traffic while the occupant is too high to notice.

There's so much wrong with the execution of this, I don't know where to start.

>There's so much wrong with the execution of this, I don't know where to start.

This looks like every other mechanical engineering undergraduate capstone project. Relying on paint for waterproofing is the real kicker.

Yeah my vision was of the things being set on fire either accidentally by the occupant or by some sociopathic passerby.

Plus we should not be encouraging shantytowns, mobile or otherwise.

The back has a hinge section that folds down to fit a +6' person fully extended. I will work to make that part clearer by including a second picture at top of site. Also, I will include to find HT pallet rather than a chemically treated one. These completed Occupods run $50 each. The city can trash them if that is their prerogative and I am not opposed to shanty towns at all.

I didn't get it from the article but is there enough airflow to ensure you won't get a CO2 poisoning of you lock yourself inside?

There are no seals on the doors so probably plenty of airflow.

Some of the people at my Makerspace have contemplated a similar project using foam board insulation to help deal with the extreme cold here in Utah.

I can't believe how we continue to fail these people with discriminatory laws, innefective innitiatives, and nimbyism.

Cool concept! You could fit a twin mattress in there.

How about adding a variant that uses 2x4s for the bottom frame instead of pallets. If you're getting everything else at Home Depot, 2x4s will be easier to source.

Now that you have an MVP, go get your first 10 customers! :)

Most of the time, pallets are free for the taking if you just ask. Whitewood pallets are mostly not returnable, and businesses get stacks and stacks of the things with deliveries. The lumber in a pallet costs on the order of $10-$20 if you were buying it retail.

My father-in-law built an entire horse barn out of pallets and shipping crates that were thrown away from his job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanty_town

What's the problem being solved that a donated popup tent can't handle? Popup tent is lighter, portable, and you can set up and tear down in seconds. I'm not sure what the point of this is.

You are disconnected obviously

There isn't enough space for a 5' person to lay down. Maybe if you put two together.

If someone is homeless, what is the likelyhood they'll be stretched out anyway?

I don't understand what homelessness has to do with extending one's limbs.

Stretching out on one's back or side or stomach is something mot folks take for granted. We are in relatively safe, warm, and dry conditions. Trying to find those good conditions when you are homeless can be a bit more of a challenge, at least if you don't have a car. Even with a car, most folks are crunched up in the seats to some degree.

Good idea. Poor execution. 5/10.

What would you do differently?

Make it longer. Consider an internal secure storage. Could you really leave valuables in it during the day if you were away. Reconsider the flap at the back. Consider when there are say over 20, over 100. This is when officials get ansy. Could the design accommodate a small group being encouraged to cluster (and optionally encourage supporter networks). Eg to protect the weak entrance area.

Curious about the pathology of homelessness and chronic sleep deprivation.

The woman who founded Right To Dream Too (http://right2dreamtoo.blogspot.com/) gave a presentation at my work. I mentioned that I thought it looked like many homeless were dealing with drug addictions and if they had services to support them. My perception is that people look much more stressed out than the homeless people I used to see in Portland twenty years ago. She remarked that people who are dealing with chronic sleeplessness often look like what you would see someone who is withdrawing from drug use, and that made me think.

It makes you wonder if more/less policing has an impact on the ability of people to find safe places to sleep, and if not, how that leads to an interminable cycle of destruction to their bodies which is maybe worse than drug use. I wish I knew the facts on that speculation.

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