Comment by m_mueller | Hacker News Reader

Comment by m_mueller | Hacker News Reader

I've done it since this summer, going from a 2012 rMBP to a near-maxed out Thinkpad 480s (1 TB SSD, 24GB RAM for USD 2300? hell yeah..).

Let me tell you though that as a mac user going to windows 10 you give up much more than a bit of polish - it's really cutting into your productivity. Just one tiny (but anger inducing) example: You can have either Windows Defender or a hangup-free Windows Explorer, but not both (and I'm talking hangups that sometimes can leave you waiting for minutes until you see your files).

To sum it all up, Windows is (a) way way less responsive to UI inputs and (b) way way less consistent how to get things done, but you can certainly get things done. (a) means a constant but small tax on productivity, (b) means that you waste a lot of time initially until you've figured out all the edge cases.

Whether or not this all justifies the Apple tax, everyone (or their organisation) has to decide, but let me just give this warning as a power user / software dev who did the transition.

If you're willing to put up with inconsistency and a time-wasting learning curve, value responsiveness, and have no attachment to Windows software (which seems likely if you're coming from a Mac) - why not Linux?

fear of driver issues. I've kept mental tabs on how many people

(a) tell me that everything went smooth but on further inquiries admit that there were actually a number of issues, some of them unresolved

(b) admit (and complain about) issues outright

(c) actually have had everything going smooth

For laptops I've yet to talk to someone in category (c).

you mean category c) in linux? Hello? but yeah full disclosure, i also had many problems with linux. Sometimes as bad as you shut down your computer at the end of the day and next day find out it wont boot because some thing you though was totally unrelated to anything... But as there is learning curve, there is also beating it. In my current workplace i choose to use linux ubuntu without help from our on-site IT over windows10 machine with IT help.. if you know what you are doing and have few years under your belt it might become preference over mac or windows. Yet to encounter any problems here, on workplace but everyday i hear people complaining about their windows machines. I also have VR setup with W10 at home, it's just a VR / game machine so no tinkering or developing but it's also problem free. No idea about macOS

Ubuntu says the T480s is fully supported, at least with the configuration in this link: https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201801-26058/

I haven't tried it myself (for lack of a T480s), I use Linux on Thinkpads for more than a decade, though.

I'm an experienced Linux user, and I've certainly dealt with driver issues (sound and wifi were my biggest hurdles).

However, I've heard more and more success stories recently, especially if you spend a bit more than the absolute minimum for your hardware. I or my co-workers have successfully installed on several laptops without any driver issues whatsoever, and some were really cheap pieces of crap (~$400).

Driver support has come a long way over there last 5 years or so, and I've actually had more trouble getting drivers after a fresh reinstall of Windows than Linux.

That‘s good to read. I‘m hoping we‘re getting back to a state like with Ubuntu 10, and staying there.

I've been a Linux user for about 10 years. The only hardware I've had trouble with after setting up dozens of machines for myself and friends has been Wifi devices from RTLink. They were solvable, but requires an actual recompile of drivers after kernel updates.

I've had a couple of experiences in the other direction though, including a Sony Viao laptop where neither the wired or wireless network worked after Window 7 install. With Linux (Kubuntu), everything worked flawlessly. This was not some strange one-off laptop manufacturer.

The other thing won't matter to many, but the install time for Windows was almost three hours, while Linux (and all it's accompanying office software, etc) took about 20 minutes. Updates are similar though, so there is some value there.

Just a few more data points, but I, and many others find that Linux is far easier to use than Windows these days as well.

Same here:

For the last 10 years mainstream linux distros has been less hassle than hunting down Windows drivers, removing bundled bloatware etc.

Mac was awesome in this regard, but after I still struggled with alt-tab after 3 years I have up.

There's a third option if you don't need too much horsepower and like portability: Chrome OS. With recent Crostini release (https://www.aboutchromebooks.com/news/chrome-os-69-stable-re...) Linux apps are supported, effectively enabling Chrome OS laptops to support largest number of apps compared to any other device on the planet - Chrome OS apps, Android apps and Linux apps combined. Top end Pixelbook comes with 16 GB RAM and core i7 CPU.

Well, I have a T480. Here are the issues:

---

fingerprint reader: unsupported, driver under development

smartcard reader: unsupported

infrared webcam: half works with V4L, flickers or appears green at full resolution due to odd pixel format (fully working if you write your own image processing)

Live switching between discrete NVidia GPU and integrated Intel GPU: distro-dependent

---

Other than that, as far as I can recall, everything works perfectly, and did so out of the box. The main thing that annoys me about Linux these days is a lack of vendor-supplied binary packages, meaning I have to either compile from source or rely on a package manager. But if you use an Ubuntu LTS release even that is mostly a non-issue.

Used a linux laptop for the last 2 years for work. It was built as a linux laptop and had driver support from the vendor. Zero issues running Ubuntu. Forced to move to Windows because I changed roles and need to make more powerpoints and docs and use Skype (which really doesn't work well under linux) but I also lost a lot of really great programs. Mostly I use WSL for real work now if I need to.

Honestly you get a TP with Windows pre installed, swap the HDD/SSD with a new one and install your distro of choice (preferably a big one like Ubuntu or Fedora for ease of use and support) and you are on your way. That way if you feel like going back to Windows you don't have to reinstall from fresh again.

I am on my 4th TP as personal computer in the last 10 years and the number of issues stopping me from using the damn thing out of the box is nil. The only word of advice would be to stop the customization process of your OS as early as possible.

Every time you switch working environments, you'll incur a large loss of productivity to not knowing the UI tricks, shortcuts, and the edge cases. If you use the products similarly, though, you should build muscle-memory and productivity enhancements over the many month time-frame. I've used 3 different OS and this is how it's worked for me each time I transitioned.

Yes, hence the loss I categorized under (b). (a) still incurs though, no matter how long you've been using Windows.

>You can have either Windows Defender or a hangup-free Windows Explorer, but not both

replace defender with a faster alternative - https://www.bitdefender.com/solutions/free.html

strange. I think something else is causing your issues. I am running Win 10 with Defender for years without trouble. UI input lags are also very strange and not a Windows phenomena.

Judging by a previous discussion [1] I don't think I'm alone with these issues. It doesn't happen every time but it happens regularly and for almost random durations. Plus Windows in general just isn't that responsive, just take the start menu as an example and compare with almost any UI interaction on macOS.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18191622

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