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There's more to university than 1:1 degree to salary analysis. Though there's definitely a failing to effectively double-down on this understanding early on in a student's career.

For example, one aspect of university is that it's a four-year gauntlet that not everyone can finish.

Another aspect is that there's more to life than work. I have a philosophy degree but also taught myself to program. I don't regret my degree, though easy to say when I have lucrative skills. But I have a problem people calling it worthless just because there is no obvious degree-to-job pipeline for philosophy.

The key is that I knew that going in. Well, everyone does know these things going in to some level, but the end can seem so far away that it's hard to really internalize the consequences when you're still putting around university.

The problem is coming out of uni with $60k debt which creates the, then, natural analysis of "so how did university equip you to deal with this burden?" And I think that's what leads us to scenarios where we're lopping off the heads of degrees that don't warrant the debt.

There is a big difference between "don't feel forced to get that luxury product, it's ok to go without if you can't afford it" and "the product is literally worthless".

Nobody is saying the second thing.

In all honestly, I went to a school of minor prestige (not ivy, but similar echelon in my field) and I have had a lot of opportunities come my way based on that. Not through alumni networking or word of mouth, just name checking the school and program has opened quite a few doors for me in my career.

That being said, I don’t think the college experience itself made me uniquely better or more prepared than my peers... and in reality a lot of my peers who’ve skipped college all-together were perhaps MORE prepared for “real work” than me. All tallied up, I agree that I’d like a future where college isn’t a requirement like it seemed to be for me.

> Statistically, that just isn't possible for all holders, meaning any time I hear someone has a degree, it's a coin flip

Those are nowhere near equivalent conditions.

> Anecdotally, all of the degree holders within my wife's circle don't have a plan to pay them off.

Even at high-default colleges and universities, the default and delinquency rates are below 10%.

At "good" colleges and universities the rates typically hover in the 1%-3% range.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there are strongly connected clusters of people who are delinquent on their student loans (e.g., majors with poor job prospects or certain types of social groups that value partying over studying).

But the fact remains: your wife's social group is extraordinarily unrepresentative.

> I have people very close to me that have no plans to pay off their mortgages, which means the loaners are just consuming payments indefinitely.

I know a lot of people who purchased houses they never intended to pay off because they knew they were only staying in the region for 5-10 years. They all saved money compared to renting and were able to sell their houses for purchase price or higher.

The bank charged lower rent than the landlords. That's all.

This strategy makes less sense if the bank is insisting on a higher down-payment or if you plan on staying in the same city for 15+ years, of course.

But the "rent vs. mortgage" decision is always extremely personal. Without knowing your friend's situation and 5-10 year career plans, it's impossible to know if he's being irresponsible or savvy.

> The latest scare to me was learning that community colleges are catching up to universities in terms of the absurdity in cost.

Citation sorely needed. I can't find a single CC system that comes even close to costing as much as the stat's university system, even at tiny branch campuses.

Also, in many states CC is free for students who do "well" in high school (and "well" here is a pretty low bar, in many states you don't even need a 3.0 gpa in non-honors courses for a full ride at CCs...).

The state university I go to costs a full 700% more than the CC I work at ($600/credit hour vs $81/credit hour in-state). That is a big gap to bridge.

Who doesn't plan to pay off their mortgage? What does that even mean? It's a 10-30 year debt, not a car lease. You don't really have the option of not paying it off unless you want to get foreclosed on and have a really hard time finding a place to rent.

I believe the GP meant that these people do not intend to stay in the same home beyond the life of the mortgage. So yes, they pay off the original loan when they sell, but they immediately turn around and take out another.

I don't agree with the GP on much of anything they said there, but that's my take on it. Maybe they meant interest only loans? I don't know why anyone would take out an interest only loan for a primary residence they intend to live in for some time, but I'm guessing here.

Do you understand how mortgages work? You can't just not pay it off. There are minimum payments and if you don't meet them you will likely get your house foreclosed on. If you keep paying for the whole 30 year term you will by default pay it off. So what exactly are you talking about?

It doesn't work that way anymore, so I'm not sure what world you live in; there are banks that provide indefinite mortgages which leave you literally paying nothing but interest and never principal.

There are certainly mortgages which only require the payment of the interest, rather than the principal:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interest-only_loan

But even with interest-only mortgages you don't pay indefinitely - either a) you switch to paying down the principal after a specific number of years or b) the loan-balance becomes due.

People like to trade up houses or refinance these days. It’s not at all unusual to reach retirement with a mortgage still in play.

This new account has already posted more than one uncivil comment to HN. That usually signals trollage, so I've banned it until we get some indication that you've read the guidelines and want to use HN as intended. If you have and do, you're welcome to email us at hn@ycombinator.com.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html