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Why spreading FUD?

Social security paid for 76% of all medical costs in 2014 (last numbers I could find).

92% of hospital bills 64% of doctors visits 62% of drugs, glasses and such. Most prescribed drugs by your doctor being reimbursed 100% you don't even have to pay at the pharmacy.

http://www.vie-publique.fr/decouverte-institutions/protectio...

You also have a very simplistic way of understanding how our retirement pension system works and the role it has in the society.

> Most prescribed drugs by your doctor being reimbursed 100% you don't even have to pay at the pharmacy.

Not paying at the pharmacy does not mean that you do not pay at all. You pay three times: Your employer pays for you a huge amount, you pay (look at your payroll), your mutual fund pays.

Most people pay much more indirectly during their life than they receive services through the SS.

You just described how insurance works.

> You also have a very simplistic way of understanding how our retirement pension system works and the role it has in the society.

I may have a simplistic way to understand it, but I am well educated in business and I had to hire people during my professional life.

Is it really social security that pays for glasses ? They pay like 10 euros for a pair... Everything else is covered by private insurances. Except if you're worthy of CMU maybe ?

Most prescribed drugs are reimbursed 100%.

Glasses, complicated dental procedures, insoles, ... are very little reimbursed.

The overall total (drugs+glasses and such) is 62% reimbursed by social security according to the article by vie-publique.fr

>Most prescribed drugs are reimbursed 100%.

No, that's only for life threatening conditions.[0] You perceive that they are 100% reimbursed, but thats only thanks to private insurances, which are mandatory if you're employed by a firm, but up to you in other cases.

>Glasses, complicated dental procedures, insoles, ... are very little reimbursed.

Yes and it's often quite a surprise to end up paying for dentistry (which is rather expensive) when you already pay a lot for public + private insurances.

>The overall total (drugs+glasses and such) is 62% reimbursed by social security according to the article by vie-publique.fr

In total € I have no doubt. But SS still reimburses about 8 euros for a pair of glasses. That's not 62% of a glasses bill, and the 8 euros for all glass wearers in france do not account for 62% of the SS expenses. The drug reimbursement look that huge but that's only because some people are with lifelong, expensive treatments (1500€ per month for HIV for example) that are fully covered.

In real life, a little portion of people are benefiting from this coverage, and healthy people are prescribed 30% reimbursed medication for mundane affections (I looked up classic treatment for gastroenteritis). So you end up paying with your private insurance (if you took one, which is not guaranteed if you're freelancer for example), or even your own money if you need glasses or a new tooth.

I just want people not to have the wrong idea about how the system works. You're fully covered by society if you're very sick/very poor, that's true, but if you come in France to start a business you probably don't fall in either category and will end up paying a lot (social contributions + through your own money or your private insurance). And private insurance prices are rising 3% per year. Which is to be expected since social security are in the process of unreimbursing many drugs or acts, alas with no cost decrease.

[0]https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F21760

I'm not sure what you mean by "deep pockets" of the "Sécurité Sociale" (is it "deep" in the sense that it's seen as bottomless, has a rather big deficit for parts of it, and it kinda assumed to be bailed out by taxpayer ; or "deep" because someone keeps the money ?)

Also, we have to make one thing clear about the whole system in France, that's quite different from other places: your employer does not pay for your retirement and healthcase ; she pays for everyone's. Since you're most likely not retired when you have an employer (duh), and most likely not heavily sick, that's probably mostly "everyone else's".

Of course, the line gets more bluried if you happen to have kids (and get the "allocations familiales", or housing help, etc...) or sick relatives, or retired ancestors.

It's a long, heated, and complicated debate whether this is a good thing or not, and whether this is sustainable in the long-term, and whether the current generation of worker will be able to get the same "generosity" from the next generation.

It's also true that most people find some way to save money "for themselves", and that companies can benefit from systems where they save money directly for their employees.

And, guess what ? As usual, this is debated at the very moment we speak, so expect nothing except change :/

Thanks for this comment, it is well written and informative.

> and whether the current generation of worker will be able to get the same "generosity" from the next generation.

It does not work well even now as there are nearly as much retirees as employees. Only debt and the fact we are a huge economy in EU save us.

Its not that unique social system, quite contrary - a lot of countries have this setup since 50s or 60s. Eastern Europe is moving/moved from this system in many cases.

You can either save for yourself (ie in mandatory pension funds) and have a risk of bankruptcy (with some governmental cover, but can't expect 100%), or have a system where current workers pay pensions for current retirees, or some mix of those. And all you can do is hope hard that once you retire, there will be enough people working for your pension (it won't). You have to save/invest aside to be really safe in 20-30 years - not really great social system if you ask me. Expect retirement age to be raised gradually exactly because this is failing.

It is utterly unsustainable, demographic curve and raw numbers won't let you do miracles, and you can't rely on pure immigration to fix this these days.

Happy to be in the system which doesn't work like that, I can see how much I have spared, what is the projection for retirement etc. I can decide when I to retire and manage with what I have saved.

> the part of the French economy not under the government control (circa 45%)!

That public spending is c. 55% of GDP does not mean that private spending is 45% of GDP, since private + public spending does not equal GDP. Back of the envelope computations put private spending at 265% of GDP [0].

> if she is hired now, there is a good probability that she will have only a little retirement pension in 40 years, even if the law does not change. (probably close to the minimum salary, at least I hope so). So all this considerable amount of money will be wasted in the state and the "sécurité sociale" deep pockets.

It is hard to understand how French people can both have "very low" pensions and then be one of the country that spend the most on pensions as a share of GDP [1], and have retirees richer than working people [2, p5.]

[0] https://www.nouvelobs.com/rue89/rue89-chez-les-economistes-a...

[1] https://data.oecd.org/socialexp/pension-spending.htm

[2] http://www.cor-retraites.fr/IMG/pdf/doc-4099.pdf

> It is hard to understand how French people can both have "very low" pensions and then be one of the country that spend the most on pensions as a share of GDP [1], and have retirees richer than working people [2, p5.]

Yes that is entirely true, but you do not take in account that:

* The median average revenue is around 1200 euros per month!

* The pension is financed partly through the debt (one third)

* There are nearly as much retirees as workers (16M vs 17M)

* We are 65 M people and our "social security" is based on 17M people who are payed a misery? The system will bankrupt soon.

The median salary is around 1800 euros for workers[1]. Not sure where you got the 1200 euros figure from.

[1] https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/3135908

No that is not the median salary but average salary:

In addition they are increased as if their were for 1600h/year (équivalent temps plein)

No, that is the median EQTP. The average is around 2250 euros/month EQTP.

> The "Social security" pays around of 10% of most usual costs, the mutual fund pays the rest...

What? The basic insurance scheme pays at least 60% of a set of reasonable, negotiated fees and the "mutuelle" covers the rest. There are a few corner cases (complicated dental work, optics) but these are being addressed. Usually the out-of-pocket expense is minimal to nil (a "forfait moderateur" of around 1 euro per doctor's appointment for instance)

Please...

Have you had to pay for glasses, dentistry, hearing aids?

Even the current president acknowledges what I said (which is a fresh start)

> most of the issues on the Github repository are written in French! What signal do you want to send?

The source of that website is the French law anyway, the code is just for reference, you have to understand French to do business in France.