Did Uber steal Google’s intellectual property?
newyorker.com
newyorker.com
The car went onto a freeway, where it travelled past an on-ramp. According to people with knowledge of events that day, the Prius accidentally boxed in another vehicle, a Camry. A human driver could easily have handled the situation by slowing down and letting the Camry merge into traffic, but Google’s software wasn’t prepared for this scenario. The cars continued speeding down the freeway side by side. The Camry’s driver jerked his car onto the right shoulder. Then, apparently trying to avoid a guardrail, he veered to the left; the Camry pinwheeled across the freeway and into the median. Levandowski, who was acting as the safety driver, swerved hard to avoid colliding with the Camry, causing Taylor to injure his spine so severely that he eventually required multiple surgeries."
These things sound like they require way more oversight before they should be allowed on the road if a single engineer can override protections like these.
According to the article they all knew about it, including other executives, and failed to report or discipline Levandowski.
They only fired him after he tried to recruit other employees, which demonstrates how exactly they prioritize safety versus profits.
They should not be allowed on the road, but not because of a single engineer, but because of their corporate culture.
edit: he wasn't fired, he quit.
“He was that kind of guy,” the co-worker said. “You know, an asshole. But a really gifted one. Our asshole, I guess.”
Also, removing him from the the tech lead position would have helped prevent further incidents.
Then something else should. Imagine one guy, gone nuts, changing the code on millions of vehicles in one shot.
How would the phone know if you sit in the left, right or the backseat? Would you propose preventing phone use for every car passenger as well?
[_] Driver [_] Passenger [_] Not in a moving vehicle
Please be advised that per SAFEDRIVERNOTTEXT Act, it is first class misdemeanor to provide untruthful answer, and your driving privilege and/or insurance coverage can be impacted if your statement is untrue.
Texting while driving is what causes majority of crashes involving cellphones, clicking a button is statistical noise.
Self-driving cars are one of those instances where painstaking adherence to the precautionary principle is going to get a lot of people killed due to poor risk modeling. This article is a great example, where the reporter has engaged in elaborate rhetorical gymnastics to paint an incident arising from a human driver's poor judgement as the fault of a "rogue engineer."
I don't think that's true. A lot of people campaign for better road safety.
However, the whole idea behind the report is that the reason we don't have the necessary evidence to draw a conclusion is that the cars simply haven't been on the road long enough yet. It accomplishes nothing to pound your desk and proclaim loftily that "There's no evidence whatsoever."
I don't see why AVs can't outperform human drivers, and further, I don't see why they need to be built with NASA-level software and hardware quality to meet that goal, as many suggest. That will only increase costs and delay benefits. "Move fast and break things" is a perfectly valid strategy if it results in fatality numbers that spike temporarily and then plunge rapidly, which is what I personally suspect is going to happen.
According to [0] 1.24 million people die in automobile related accidents annually. This works out to 0.04 per second. Unless parent is a very slow typist your number overstates the real toll several times.
[0] http://www.progressive-economy.org/trade_facts/traffic-accid...
Seems to be a mix of 2010 and 2014 data, but broadly speaking close enough.
We need to learn to place reasonable restrictions on the use of potentially dangerous technology while it’s under nascent development.
I have no idea what that would look like, or if it’s possible. I do believe it’s an on going concern.
Edit: changed active to nacent to improve clarity.
He was guiding strategy and everything. When a senior employee misbehave it's hard to fire them. When they have a strategic value, it's almost impossible unless they are already lost i.e actively work against the companies interests to further their or a competitor's interests.
Shouldn't the Prius continue at a constant speed? And its the merging cars job to adjust speed the get in?
I personally find a frustration when merging onto a freeway is where a driver in the main lane slows down for you but 'just enough' so your not sure if they are slowing down or not so you slow down to get behind them so they slow down more.... just keep your speed constant and the merging car will adjust things.
It is better to cause a slight confusion but be prepared. This is why people are slowing down when they see a car merging. To brake and to maneuver.
> The Prius regained control and turned a corner on the freeway, leaving the Camry behind. Levandowski and Taylor didn’t know how badly damaged the Camry was. They didn’t go back to check on the other driver or to see if anyone else had been hurt. Neither they nor other Google executives made inquiries with the authorities. The police were not informed that a self-driving algorithm had contributed to the accident.
> Levandowski, rather than being cowed by the incident, later defended it as an invaluable source of data, an opportunity to learn how to avoid similar mistakes. He sent colleagues an e-mail with video of the near-collision. Its subject line was “Prius vs. Camry.”
Holy shit. Why aren't there criminal charges here?
There is no traffic violation called "boxing in".
The vehicle already in the freeway has the right of way; the merging vehicle must accommodate itself to the situation, not the other way around. If necessary, the merging vehicle must stop (way in advance of the merge point) and wait for a suitably long gap which takes into account the acceleration time.
It's possible that a vehicle on the freeway can make a hostile move which interferes with the merging driver's judgment, such as unexpectedly changing to the right lane or accelerating. I don't see any claim of this sort about this situation (which doesn't mean that it didn't happen).
For a merging vehicle to fail to adjust its speed to the traffic, and to drive side by side with a vehicle which has right-of-way, to the point of then having to swerve to avoid an obstacle, doesn't look good for the driver of the merging vehicle.
I get the point that the software should take into account psychotic maniacs of this nature; no disagreement there. It is a fact of driving in North America that people merge on the freeway by seizing the right of way, relying on vehicles passing the on-ramp to hit their brakes, and will pull crazy stunts like driving side by side with a car that doesn't slow down from them, even past the end of the merge lane where they run out of room. Software should defend itself against these maniacs. I say defend; it is a defense against reckless, unlawful motorist behavior.
This should never have been possible to happen.
The fact that Waymo hushed this up also doesn't instill trust.
So what? That does not dicount the fact that a single engineer rigged the software in a way which allowed a deadly machine to be used on public roads. If anything it makes the issue much worse that the lead engineer performed such an, arguably, criminal hack.
Actually I appreciate your answer. It illustrates perfectly why the SV croud cannot be trusted with policy decisions regarding autonomous vehicles.
Preferably also prevent mechanics from taking apart cars, they make mistakes and install unapproved parts.
It is far more dangerous than an actual test drive with an actual safety driver.
Silicon valley in a nut shell folks. Completely disregard ethics and hey presto a few years down the line the total fraudster you hired turns out to have been unethical! Whodathunk!
This is what a lot of Silicon Valley has become, but it has not always been this way and there are still some legitimate companies that that do in fact wear clothes - mostly semiconductor companies though.
That’s been cracking over time as e.g. people noticed that all of the cool stuff Google does is a sideline for selling ads, Uber is a gypsy cab company which would fail the instant they had to comply with the law or pay for externalities, etc. Rather than letting SV redesign the world we’re hope the world will rein it in enough before more people are hurt.
Given how strong that self-image has been in tech culture for decades, a lot of people are going to have strong emotions when it’s no longer possible to maintain cognitive dissonance.
Some non-psychopathic successful individuals: Bill Hewlett, David Packard, Gordon Moore, Andy Grove, Federico Faggin, Ross Freeman, Bob Noyce, the Varian brothers, Bob Taylor, Jerry Sanders, Wilfred Corrigan ...
It's only in the last 25 years that movie villains have become the norm.
Compare these guys to Page, Zuckerberg, Musk, Kalanick, Thiel, Kurzweil, ... and all of a sudden they seem very normal.
Hahahha. No.
The days of Noyce's Intel and so on are long gone. Only nvidia really remains innovative
I'm going to take a wild guess and say you work in the semi industry? ;)
Intel, the shining example, definitely relies on the x86 monopoly
I feel this is more a human nature problem than a "tech os evil" problem.
Every company seems to have one. They always intrigue me.
Everyone knew about it, everyone watched the video, but no one saw fit to report the incident or take responsibility.
So all the claims about 10 million miles without any serious incident are, effectively, false.
What else are they hiding? How safe these cars really are?
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Ca1CO6...
Does hackernews move posts around and change their timestamps?
I don't know if this link will continue working, but if you look at it through this view, the comment that you're replying to shows as "2 days ago": https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=oldgradstudent&next=...
But if you link to it directly, it shows as (currently) "4 hours ago": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18223066
I can understand the second-chance idea, but lying about when comments were posted is very strange.
That's pretty hyperbolic and loose with the facts.
You can't call it a hit and run, because Google's car did not hit the other vehicle.
You cannot say that Google was at fault for the incident because they had the right of way. While slowing down to let the other car merge would have been safer for everybody, it is on the merging vehicle to ensure they have space to merge safely and to safely respond if vehicles in the lane they are trying to forcibly merge into doesn't make space for them.
There is certainly a point to be made about what type of incidents are being reported. Incidents like this, where the self driving car behaves unexpectedly but legally are important information as we try to create the regulatory framework for self-driving vehicles.
It is interesting to note that the concept of "right of way" has been removed from various jurisdictions in Australia. We now have many "give way" rules. Basically, if someone is supposed to give way to you and you could have prevented an accident and didn't then you are considered proportionally at fault with the other person.
Not that many people take notice, but you are supposed to drive defensively here and work to avoid accidents. The only ones who have any sort of "right of way" are emergency service vehicles like ambulance, fire and police.
One thing I encourage the young people I know is to take up the various "defensive" driving courses that are available.
"The only thing that matters is the future,” [Levandowski] told me after the civil trial was settled. “I don’t even know why we study history. It’s entertaining, I guess—the dinosaurs and the Neanderthals and the Industrial Revolution, and stuff like that. But what already happened doesn’t really matter. You don’t need to know that history to build on what they made. In technology, all that matters is tomorrow."
To what extent does this attitude represent Silicon Valley? More usefully, could we avoid some ill-bred start-up ideas and venture capital wasted if the attitude of Silicon Valley was changed to include just a little more care about history?
A hundred years from now I bet history professors will bring up Levandowski as “one of those Silicon Valley jackasses who thought they were building the future but had no idea how they arrived at the present.”
> Levandowski refused to discuss the case with reporters but attracted headlines with a curveball revelation: he had founded a church, called the Way of the Future, that was devoted to “the realization, acceptance, and worship of a Godhead based on Artificial Intelligence.” Machines would eventually become more powerful than humans, he proclaimed, and the members of his church would prepare themselves, intellectually and spiritually, for that momentous transition. Some people wondered if the church, as a nonprofit organization, was a scheme to protect Levandowski’s fortune, but he assured reporters that he was sincere. “I don’t believe in God,” he told me. “But I do believe that we are creating something that basically, as far as we’re concerned, will be like God to us.”
It's funny how so many of the 'unfaithful' seem to lack the capacity for metaphysical thought.
This guy also seems a little bit crazy, and not in the good way.
I am always amazed at both the narrow materialism, and hyper grandiosity of these people.
'Starting his own religion' (especially based around technology!) is a massive red flag ... extreme and also misplaced egoism.
This guy is a 'jump the shark' moment for the Valley.
They also apparently think diode alingment pins are a trade secret.
In the trial they also made it seem like Waymo invented the concept of monostatic LIDAR.
My guess as to what happened is that Waymo has nothing solid on Levandowski but he acted extremely supiciously and they hoped to find anything he had stolen in the process of the lawsuitl
Google/Waymo may have some proprietary technology in LIDAR data reduction. There are hints of that in Urmson's 2016 SXSW talk. Lots of people are trying to apply machine learning to camera images, but applying it to LIDAR is probably more likely to work. Less ambiguous data. But there's no indication of that being an area of litigation.
I met Levandowski briefly when he was preparing for the DARPA Grand Challenge. He was still a student at UC Berkley then. His real achievement was that, after the DARPA Grand Challenge, in 2008, he built a self-driving car able to cross the Bay Bridge for the Discovery Channel.[1] That's where Google got their start in self-driving. There was not a rush, after the Grand Challenge, to throw money at the problem.
[1] https://spectrum.ieee.org/robotics/artificial-intelligence/t...
[1] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/10/lone-engineer-spanks-wa...
> “If it is your job to advance technology, safety cannot be your No. 1 concern,” Levandowski told me.
> Levandowski and Taylor didn’t know how badly damaged the Camry was. They didn’t go back to check on the other driver or to see if anyone else had been hurt. Neither they nor other Google executives made inquiries with the authorities. The police were not informed that a self-driving algorithm had contributed to the accident. Levandowski, rather than being cowed by the incident, later defended it as an invaluable source of data, an opportunity to learn how to avoid similar mistakes. He sent colleagues an e-mail with video of the near-collision. Its subject line was “Prius vs. Camry.”
God save us all from engineers with a Messiah complex who think a few boring little lives are a small price to pay for progress.
This isn't the entire code, and it's normally referred to as the "Konami code" since it appears across platforms in Konami games.