Mastodon’s 2 Year Anniversary
blog.joinmastodon.org
blog.joinmastodon.org
https://github.com/BasixKOR/awesome-activitypub
What will really get the ball rolling will be organizations such as governments, educational institutions, public libraries, or news agencies that create federated social infrastructure for their own membership.
I'd love to see them succeed. But I think it's dangerous for programmers to focus on building a thing rather than serving their users.
[1] This isn't a slam; it's a technical term from Eric Ries: http://www.startuplessonslearned.com/2009/12/why-vanity-metr...
Last month active users: 478516
It seems Mastodon is an example of programmers actually building something with real ambitions rather than just trying to make big money by trying to form an addiction for their users.
Dangerous for whom?
Mastodon isn't a product, it's an open source project. More active users is nice, but isn't fundamental to the project; it will continue as long as there are people interested in working on it.
I think that's a fair measure for a repository of code golf examples, or something where it's just a bunch of people scratching their own itches. But Mastodon is an inherently social product. I don't believe it has any meaning without usage. And clearly, the Mastodon people know that, which is why they talk about the number of registered users.
But the danger with vanity metrics is that a lot of effort can get wasted. That wasted effort can snowball. If a product has a lot of features that nobody uses, it can make future additions and product evolution harder. That can also discourage adoption. And I think the additional danger for Mastodon is that as the most prominent of the open-source social network alternatives, its success or failure will be seen as the success or failure of alternatives to Twitter, etc.
>But the danger with vanity metrics is that a lot of effort can get wasted.
What makes someone's effort "wasted"? IMO, if the developers enjoy working on it, their effort wasn't wasted. Not every project (even if it's a social network!) needs to appeal to everyone in the world, not everyone needs to be out for world domination, and that's okay.
If you look at their web site, it's clear their goal is "social networking, back in your hands". Vanity metrics lead to wasted effort relative to goals like that.
I'm glad Eugen started it, and I'm glad it's thriving. It's like Twitter was before they went impression-obsessed after the 2013/2014 Situation showed them what was possible. And it's all funded by Patreons for the most part.
> I’m very happy with Mastodon’s accomplishments. Overseeing such a large project has its ups and downs, as it’s impossible to keep everyone happy all the time when people have conflicting desires. Irregardless, I consider these to be the two best years of my life, as work on Mastodon is incredibly fulfilling and interacting with all the interesting people on the platform is very fun.
The user can still follow hashtags/keywords from most of the users out there. Many of the more popular instances do not federate with a few of the more toxic, anything-goes servers, so the federated timeline won't be completely universal. While that might be true much of the stuff posted on those instances being censored wouldn't be tolerated on a platform like Twitter anyway.
This is the issue; many servers are picky about who they federate with and this creates a real bubble.
What most people don't get about "bubbles", mostly because it doesn't affect them, is that sometimes, if your mere existence is political, getting some rest from it can be quite hard.
When they tell me I'm living in a bubble because I use an instance with rules and instance blocks, what they want is for the street preacher to be able to chase me down the sidewalk yelling fire and brimstone at me. "I wouldn't personally do that," they insist, "but people should be able to!"
They want to be able to harass people online the way they do offline, and on less advanced social networks. It's as ideological as all the opinions they reject as ideology.
This does bring up an important point however, in that the largest instances that will exist may not be the one that curates and manages the instance/ecosystem/users on the ecosystem as well or as reasonably, however creates a space (or bubble) of popular reaction - say being only "80%" compassionate vs. fully understanding. For example, what if a convicted rapist has done their prison time? I feel this would have very different responses based on the nation and culture and how much or how little actual rehabilitation and treatment people receive, if that society trusts the outcome of the system or not. I believe that keeping "unhealthy" people separate from "healthy" people will prevent them from learning - and of course has the potential to allow the unhealthy to learn further bad behaviours or reenforce ones they already have; this doesn't mean we should design for a free-for-all system like Twitter and Facebook are various degrees of. It comes down to compassion - which includes not dismissing or forgetting about people, even if they're not people we'd want as our friends or family.
In the case of a user who simply has a "trail" of accusations for unacceptable behaviour, do we foster "guilty until proven innocent" as an acceptable behaviour - blocking that user from society's online interactions - or should we foster more of a "innocent until proven guilty" - while perhaps keeping an eye on people who are accused of certain behaviour? If the a little girl accuses her brother of stealing the cookie from the cookie jar, however the boy claims it didn't happen - and there's no proof, it's not fair to me if to punish either child until there's proof: either the sister took the cookie and is lying, or the brother took the cookie and is lying; you could ban them from the kitchen with the cookie jar, though if they're ever left alone and there's no evidence like video to check back on, then either child could still take another cookie.
I then wonder though, if there become more trusted and larger instances that do put the effort (and cost) into curation and managing the community (the family of society), then smaller instances will and can tap into that network - however then not contributing or covering any of the cost. How does this imbalance balance out, or does it need to, even? Does it become a question as to whether people who want accountability are willing to pay a small amount to pay the costs of such moderation vs. people simply hoping someone else deals with it - a bystander effect?
I wonder if the Mastodon community or founder have any thoughts or beliefs to this? Likewise, what happens if you have a whole bunch of instances where people are in their bubble of communities, perhaps with less critical thinking time spent and more indoctrination, where then propaganda can easily be distributed without any potential to filter it out and protect the whole as easily; of course solid in-person, real-life community and connectedness is the only way to counter this, including developing deep trust with individuals who you trust are thoughtful and such.
I'm still not sold on that decentralized is the safest option, however it perhaps can help counter against bad actors who seek control of systems; in fact it could act as a canary if the powers that be attempt to make decentralized systems illegal - as part of an effort to control (and perhaps censor). However, so long as the community is educated as a whole, and is hyperaware of these characteristics and readies to counter it in full, to hold the line for peace and justice, then we're on the right path. In contrast to decentralization, if we look at Apple's ecosystem, trust and governance and good design, forethought, plays an important role in success - though everyone in that ecosystem is "paying their dues" via profit Apple receives. And contrasting that further to Facebook, whereby they profit off of the manipulative aspect of ads and with practically no vetting or oversight.
If you're building a purely general purpose instance or a free speech themed one it's fine to not block this sort of instance.
It's okay to have this "net split". It's a system of curation. It encourages smaller instances.
Mastodon is also heavily used by minority / LGBT communities that deal with abuse and harassment a lot, often for merely existing. And often a "free speech" instance or worse a "no moderation" instance will attract that sort of person.
It's actually kind of interesting that me mentioning bubbles resulted in an immediately political assumption; I guess it shows how out of touch I am with mainstream Twitter.
My instance bans the sort of instance described in the sibling comment to yours, like qoto (who advertised their Mastodon as "free speech twitter"... on twitter ads)
A newly created Mastodon instance by default federates with everyone in that allows messages and following from and to every other instance.
But it's federated timeline has no posts from other instances, because that view only shows posts that the instance actually sees. It only shows what people on the same instance actually follow, because otherwise there is no reason for the posts to be sent to it.
It's the default, and most instances stick with it. None of the items seem controversial. Which one stands out as a problem to you?
The reason there are no flame wars is not that Mastodon users are somewhat enlightened, as opposed to the Twitter rabble. Instead, clashes are avoided by having (and enforcing) rules and banning ideologies. The catch here is that this would never scale; this only works because there are only a few users.
If an instance is unable to moderate all its users, they can shut down signups temporarily.
In any case, you should contact the admins of your instance, but most probably they have blocked that instance, as it appears on blocklists for being a free speech zone.
Update: I'm seeing them fave my posts.
And if you are into data science and especially data visualisation, also check out vis.social: https://vis.social/about
Both are also well run, IMHO.
There are quite a few instances where a capricious admin gets to decide what content is acceptable for all their users. Even less transparent and less accountable than corporate censorship.
BTW, maybe exists something like to the "Awesome-Mastodon-Instances" for IT? BSD have instance, Ruby have instance, but how about Python, Linux, Computer Graphics, Game Development and so on. :-)
https://github.com/sumdog/bee2/
I'm really glad I set this up. Mastodon is an interesting platform; like one big lopsided chatroom. You do have to follow a lot of strangers to get started (unless you can convince a bunch of your friends to join).
People also go pretty ban crazy on there. I've been called a "Nazi stooge" and been flagged and reported once ... which went to my instance admin .. which is me. A lot of instances ban entire instances (instances like sealion.club tend to get banned and bofa.lol recently imploded). So running your own ensures you control what you see and not be censored by an instance admin.
I'd be interested in following more HN users. I suggest putting your ActivityPub address in your HN profile.
See my old profile for example: https://mastodon.social/@r3bl
It's not really true. What really happens is that people are told that mastodon is the land of milk and honey, and people of all stripes migrate over, and continue to clash. Mastodon brings better tools to deal with it, but the same people import the same negative behaviours but end up on instances that typically reinforce their beliefs.
I really hoped that mastodon would be better, but it's really the same noise as twitter but worse - people end up on hyper-polarised instances where war is waged with blocks, bans, and federation filters. At least on twitter you have to share a home with people you don't agree with, here you can build all the walls you want to isolate yourself from anyone who doesn't completely agree with you.
> here you can build all the walls you want to isolate yourself from anyone who doesn't completely agree with you
Shouldn't isolation of opposing viewpoints lead to less war overall? If everyone is interacting in the same space, every controversial post can potentially provoke an aggressive reply, and each response draws in more followers to participate in the battle. On HN, that is counteracted by having too many comments weigh down a submission (the famed flamewar detector), but on engagement-based platforms like Twitter, the fighting never ends.
If everyone chooses an instance with people that think alike and that filters content they strongly disagree with, it's not going to lead to more people changing their minds; but at least they won't constantly see things that make them mad and draw them into useless fights.
I wish all wars were waged like this. It would solve a lot of worldwide issues.
But if you have access to a cluster and want to try it, here you go: https://github.com/SerenityLaboratories/cluster
It includes a storage provider I wouldn't trust all too much yet and the docs are sparse, but you should be able to get it running if you know Kubernetes.
While I’ve settled into two instances on Mastodon the one problem I’m finding is that you do kind of need multiple instances. Some instances, even with decent user bases, just don’t have the correlating activity. That or the user base skews to a time zone which can shift the discussion time.
The upside is being able to mute/block from the get go. This helps keep the federated timeline much more quiet. There’s a ton of bots & hashtag heavy people posting reblog kind of stuff. Things that aren’t really much value to a discussion so being able to just declutter that out has been helpful.
* Your instance banning you, which means you can just join another instance. The hardest thing about Mastodon is chosing an instance whose administration you can trust. The reason the service is valuable and important is that barring any instance being trustable to you you can always start your own.
* Another instance banning you (or your entire instance) which just means users on that instance don't see you in the fediverse. This can lead to complications where swarms of instances cooperate their ban lists and thus getting banned from one of them can see you cut out of a swathe of the network, but in practice those using mastodon pride themselves on not centralizing and thus there is limited interest in centralizing moderation like this in the first place.
Of note there are degrees of that second kind of ban. The lightest form is that you or your instance just doesn't show up in timelines - users can still find you by other means and follow you. The most severe is the total noop communication with that instance server which means its users don't exist to the instance doing the banning.