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New Google Pixel 3, Pixel Slate, and Home Hub

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322 pointsalanfranz572 comments

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I see all these Android phones with notches on the top, but no screen going all the way to the bottom. Apple explained they wanted an edge to edge screen, and that the notch was a compromise to achieve that goal. Now all the android devices are copying the compromise without trying to copy the goal.

For Pixel in particular it really feels like they've started copying the iPhone's hardware choices in some ways, for no real reason that I can discern. The notch, eliminating the headphone jack, etc. Then they even matched it on price (heck, isn't the Pixel actually more expensive than an iPhone if you match them on flash size?). I was a Google phone fan back in the days of the Nexus 4, but these latest attempts feel like Google trying to force their market position up rather than embracing their niche.

I don't have any personal experience with this, but I saw this article about Google killing the headphone jack:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3284186/mobile/bring-back-th...

Yeah, Apple killed headphone jacks on the iPhone. But they also:

1) Gave you lightning headphones that work on all iPhones

2) Have 3rd party lightning headphones that all work on all iPhones

3) Gave you a lightning to 3.5mm headphone adapter that worked on all iPhones with whatever regular 3.5mm headphones you previously used with your phones

4) Made better bluetooth earbuds for moving away from wired headphones entirely

Android manufacturers have not matched that with USB-C audio. They just copied "Step 0) Remove the headphone jack."

Google did all those things.

The Pixel 3 will include USB C headphones and a dongle [1]. They have worked with Bose and other manufacturers on new bluetooth headphones that have additional functionality (switching between apps, talking with the assistant app). [2]

[1] https://www.cnet.com/news/pixel-3-includes-usb-c-headphones-...

[2] https://www.blog.google/products/assistant/headphones-optimi...

It's pretty pathetic too after they release a whole slew of ads making fun of Apple's design choices... Only to unashamedly copy them in the next iteration.

Off topic : the launch webpage [1] is hell annoying. Image loops, scroll-jacking, poorly thought out.

By the time I scrolled to the bottom, Chrome made 470 requests and downloaded 42.8 Megabytes (10 additional requests blocked by AdBlock plus extension) and thats just the 'Overview' tab.

W.T.F!

[1]: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_3

I think the idea for the pricing is giving the consumer that it is not a cheap knockoff alternative to Samsung or Huawei. And Google allows heavy discount to Carriers, so consumers "saves" a few hundred dollars when they sign it with a mobile contracts. Compared to Apple you get less than 10% discount from Wholesale.

I'd pay nearly any amount for a Nexus 5 SE. Perfect form factor/size and a beautiful design, just needs a better battery and camera.

The Pixels are cheaper for a flagship phone. But I was surprised they were in striking distance of iPhone pricing. Wow.

Pixel 3 128 $899 XR 128 $799 XS 256 $1149

I was a proud Android user since the g1 days but now will be switching to iPhone due to Google's terrible privacy practices.

> For Pixel in particular it really feels like they've started copying the iPhone's hardware choices in some ways, for no real reason that I can discern.

The iPhone is cool. That’s why it’s being copied.

Completely a conspiracy theory, but what if Google & others theorize that actively making devices worse causes an unexpected psychological response? Apple customers are devoted and willing to spend large amounts of money to upgrade flashy looking devices regularly, that's why Apple is so profitable. Making a sacrifice (the notch, high cost, lack of a headphone jack) to own an "elite" device effectively commits one to continue defending that decision, both to others (potential customers!) and through additional buying decisions later. A kind of self-induced Stockholm syndrome.

the CEO one of the chinese phone companies (i can't remember which one) just came straight out and told theverge what we all assumed: the notch isn't necessary, but consumers see a notch as "premium". So they notch the display, because that tests better in their market research.

We are truly living in the age of idiocracy.

I heard Alan Kay sum it up well in a podcast this morning where he was talking about how evolution doesn't have to evolve to be the best anything. Paraphrasing- "If you live in a stupid environment, stupid is the most fit."

It's not like at any time in the past this was any different.

Which podcast was it?

A notch is necessary for the faceid sensor array. If you don’t need a foreword facing sensor array you should get rid of the notch.

If you have a finnger print sensor on the rear why not make a no-notch phone with an edge to edge display and no notch?

Do you think Apple came to the same conclusion? That a notch was a necessity to appear premium? No they didn’t because they were not copying anyone else’s phone design, they included a notch so faceid worked.

It appears you've misunderstood the comment you're replying to. The notch is considered premium because Apple did it and imitator are only doing it because Apple did, not because they need to for the same reasons that Apple did.

Isn't a notch necessary for a front-facing camera period, if your screen goes to the edges?

The FaceID sensor array just coincidentally came out at the same time, no?

Apple made it premium, but phones had notches before them. Sharp and Essential phone come to mind.

Sharp in particular has had fully bezel-less phones for years, I honestly though their camera on the bottom design would be copied way before the weird notch.

> A notch is necessary for the faceid sensor array. If you don’t need a foreword facing sensor array you should get rid of the notch.

Pretty much every smartphone for years has had a forward facing, top-mounted sensor array (and a similarly positioned output device), either in a bezel or, if avoiding a full-width bezel, a notch.

(The “sensor array” may just be a camera and light-level sensor, but it's there, for sure.)

I think it was the CEO of OnePlus [1].

https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/28/17152840/oneplus-6-notch-...

Well, there are some devices that try to inrease the screensize to the max, for example the Oneplus 6 (which has sadly a very high SAR value) or the newly "leaks" of de Mate 20.

Surely the notch is necessary if you want the screen to cover the rest of the face of the phone, otherwise where does the front facing camera go?

The notch is now a status symbol. Sure, the notch is a clear usability sacrifice, but for 12 months the presence of a notch was synonymous with having [arguably] the best phone. Google's pixel offering captures this perfectly: the pixel 3 is notchless, you need to pay the money for the XL to get your notch.

The notch might be, however Android is clearly not.

I think that's ascribing Apple a little too much. This design trend would have happened with or without Apple, and their design goals aren't everybody's. Phones such as Essential had this notch before Apple was even rumoured to have one.

It's no coincidence that so many phones are adopting the notch right after Apple, like so many other design trends.

One of the factors is that Apple forces shifts before the mainstream is ready. But they can get away with it because they’re Apple. This was the case before the iPhone BTW with floppy drive factors and the like. Once Apple blesses, others feel authorized to tag along.

Not saying the notch is the same thing but 3.5mm jack certainly is.

Apple doesn't invent anything. They let someone else invent it, then they just borrow the design and iterate. It's been their MO for more than a decade.

Getting close to two decades, at a minimum. It depends on whether you want to go farther back than the iPod (2001).

Obviously, it works for them. An important, if sometimes overlooked, factor of their strategy is that it's not just borrow and iterate, it's a) identify device that will blow up, b) borrow well before it blows up, c) use that lead time to iterate and leap-frog the competition in polish, and d) release right as the market is poised to accept the new device as mainstream.

They can also misjudge any one of those items a bit and still power their way through, especially now that they have such credibility.

Release time from concept is probably ~4 years. Factories might start to be able to build notched screens earlier. There is a chance that other vendors just got an access to early version of notched screens technology.

Comes down to two reasons.. 1. Its costly to manufacture a screen that bends to avoid the bezel. 2. Apple has a patent for bended screen. So, competitors have to come up with a slightly different way to achieve this.

Folded screen of iphone https://i.imgur.com/Vg2n5Ji.jpg

Personally, I'd rather have a bit of bezel... nothing sucks more than using my Pixel 2 XL without a case, invariably the edge of my finger is touching part of the screen, which messes with input more often than not.

Trying to get rid of it, while looking cool actually makes using the thing worse.

Either that or really good palm detection, the iPhone X/Xs have really good detection when I try and reach over to null palm-touches. My Essential PH-1 on the other hand does not, and that makes it really frustrating to use with one hand.

Yeah, that was an issue with my LG V30. Looks great, but they didn't program any way of dealing with those accidental edge touches.

Didn't Samsung's flagships have edge screens before the iPhone X was released?

Edge to edge on sides is easy enough. The reason why all Android phones have a noticeable bottom chin is because you have to house the display driver (essentially, connections to OLED) somewhere. Apple's idea is to sacrifice part of display and bend it, so the display driver could be underneath the display. It's expensive, requires complicated engineering and manufacturing, and is also patented.

It's way cheaper to just house the driver below the display, as all the other phones are doing.

No, they still have small bezels both at top and bottom

The iPhone does not have front facing speakers. Now that was their choice I understand, but to think that Google couldn't do it if they didn't want to is just not true. And there's plenty of Android phones with screen edge-to-edge. Heck, the old Essential Phone has it.

There's about half an inch on the bottom of the Essential. (It's my test phone.)

Actually makes me respect Samsung a bit more for sticking to their guns and continuing to poke fun at the notch, rightly or wrongly.

Yes, they've done their fair share of copying from Apple, but lately they seem to actually believe in their own ideas.

I bet they're trying all kinds of crazy stuff to make their phones look newer than 5 years old while not copying the notch they have been mocking in their own commercials.

The only thing I can think of is a pop-up camera (done already) or a through-pixel camera (not done yet). If Samsung pulls off the latter the whole smartphone evolution is just done, over, finished.

I agree the notch looks really bad. But if you have the option of not having screen there vs having screen there, I am okay with the notch. You anyway have an option to turn that part of the screen off on Android? I don't know why everyone is up in their arms about this.

I guess Google really wants to stick with two speakers. And not sure about the Apple's patent about folded OLED and/or others having the expertise to do it.

Disc: Googler but don't work on the related teams.

I really don't mind small notches. My current phone has one about the same height as the notification bar. This Pixel 3 notch is absolutely hideous compared.

Maybe that will kill the trend? I certainly hope so! :-)

Maybe they decided reaching the top of the screen was more important than reaching the bottom?

Apple didn't come up with the notch. Essential and Sharp (both Android phones) were first:

https://www.phonearena.com/news/history-of-the-notch-and-bez...

It makes complete sense on those phones though, doesn't really work on the pixel 3.

In my opinion, LG was first with the V10. It was just advertised differently, as a 'second screen' rather than a notch.

But Android manufacturers weren’t seeing it as “essential” until Apple did it. Same with ditching the headphone jack. The industry makes fun of Apple for doing something, then the next year, copies it

Here we are much later. Not having a headphone jack is still really stupid. Having to use a dongle for headphones is still an inconvenience that detracts from the experience. Every set of truly wireless bluetooth earbuds on the market is mediocre at best. The sound quality is substandard for listening to music (even compared to other earbuds) and the audio frequently lags, making them utterly worthless for everything else.

Even when someone does design a set of truly wireless earbuds that matches the quality of $20 wired earbuds today, its still going to be a total joke as long as those wireless earbuds cost 150-300.

I'm a happy Pixel 2 XL user, and I definitely agree here. It almost seems like they thought the notch itself was the feature rather than just an enabler for the bezeless screen, which is the real feature.

Just as crazy, glass backs. They’re there mostly to facilitate wireless charging yet 50%+ of the phones that have them don’t support wireless charging...

Agreed. This is not Google engineering. This marketing-driven design. Something is off here..

Notches are hideous, and so are rounded screens (and excessively rounded designs in general -- just look at Chrome). It would be fine, though: more choice for those who prefer it, if were not for the fact that this is how "fads" and "marketing-imposed trends" work: I have no choice to buy a non-notched, square screen phone in 2018.

I pray my current phone holds for another couple years, until this fad goes away.

I find rounded corners on screens to be quite nice. I think they will be one of the big design changes over the next few years. They make screens appear more natural / organic imo.

Nah, it's all fine. The only thing better than a notch would if if/when they can go completely edge-to-edge, but short of having a protruding earpiece and not having light/prox sensors, it won't happen.

Not all of them, check out the Xiaomi Mix 2. Pictures are ok but otherwise great phone and no notch. To use the front camera you need to turn the phone around though, but for me that's a better compromise than the notch.

While I don't like the look of it myself, I'll hazard a guess as to the design thinking behind it: notifications/menu bar can now live either side of the notch without taking up 'content' space. So the screen either side of the notch is for the notifications bar/menu bar/I-can't-remember-the-android-term-for-it and the total space matches the space on the bottom of the phone, leaving a centered amount of screen space for 'content'. Because it's not most full-screen experiences are ever going to use the notch area.

In this case it's a simple reason: there are stereo speakers, which means there has to be a speaker at the bottom. That stops the screen from going all the way to the bottom edge.

There's technology to make the sound with the screen. Vivo Apex did it:

https://www.whathifi.com/news/vivos-apex-concept-smartphone-...

https://mashable.com/2017/02/28/redux-phone-screen-speaker/

And it's not supposed to be as good as actual speakers?

Disc: Googler but don't work on related teams.

Except the Apple phones don't have edge to edge screens. Currently there has to be electronics located on the edge of screens.

Apple has chosen to distribute these around their screens. Most Android phone makers have instead chosen to place them at the bottom.of the screen.

This means that in general Apple has larger edges than Android notch phones on 3 sides but no bottom chin. Android notch phones in general have a smaller distance between the edge of the screen and the edge of the phone but a larger lower chin.

The Pixel Notch is the worst looking, most disappointing phone design I've seen for a long time - from someone where I actually had certain expectations.

I can't stand the notch design band aid (the S8/9/Note just looks far far cleaner, has much greater usable screen size), and this has all but guaranteed my next phone will be another flagship Samsung.

Every once in a while I start thinking about switching to Android and then I see a comment like this and I wake up.

I absolutely hate edge to edge screens. It makes for a terrible user experience when you accidentally hit something with your palm. I also hate the super thin fad. Now I just have to buy a think bumper case so I can actually hold the phone.

I don't like the notch but I don't really see the bottom bezel as any worse of a design. If you want two front facing speakers you'd need two notches and that's even more of a developer burden.

Google could have copied Vivo Apex to beat Apple in bezel-less game once for all. Instead we get an ugly notch and a bezel at the bottom. Feels premium, I really fall for it, really! :-/

The goal is to maximize screen-to-body ratio. Having an edge-to-edge screen is just a milestone related to that goal.

Going edge to edge is extremely difficult, and requires folding the screen past the edge. Even Samsung haven't managed to do this, only Apple.

cargo cult design

Pixel 3: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_3

Pixel Stand: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_stand

Pixel Slate: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_slate

Home Hub: https://store.google.com/product/google_home_hub

It is so weird these days that 95% of the marketing and copy for new hardware is actually marketing and copy about software, not the hardware. They do however have a spec compare page for the phones: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_compare

I'm their target market then. What differentiates google for me is the SERVICES they offer: gmail, maps, search, photos, voice search, voice transcription, google voice.

Even if my perception is wrong, I picture google as a company that is better able to deliver cloud software. Since the hardware is all good enough now, what makes me consider going from Apple to Google is that I prefer google mail and google maps, and the google ecosystem. I also think google is better positioned to take on Amazon and Microsoft and Facebook. Apple is in a distant fifth place behind all those companies. And then you have Sony, which in many respects DOES have a better hardware ecosystem than Apple, for the home (speakers, playstation, cameras, televisions, headphones etc. and vue.) HomeKit and HealthKit are the two places Apple is competitive, and music/movie services are a dime a dozen at the moment, im not committing to an ecosystem if for example I liked iTunes/Beats more than Google Play. Lest we not forget Spotify and Roku are still independent beasts.

And on the other end Apples value proposition is that their store has all the flagship versions of apps (companies tend to treat iOS as their first class citizen) and privacy as a promise. That is a compelling sales pitch; to be treated as just a customer, not as something to be data mined and targeted.

Google REALLY needs to figure out Google Voice, Hangouts, Google News, Google Reader etc. Theres no reason Facebook should be a better feed and messenger, google has all the parts and talent, and cannot for the life of them unify them into a coherent simple product. Stop treating google voice like an afterthought, its a killer product. Google needs to figure out android vs chrome. Its very scary to buy into either of these product lines (at least I know my data is stored in google services regardless.)

Its a very hard decision right now to go Alexa vs Google Home, vs HomeKit. It sucks liking Swift apps, Google Photos, Facebook Messenger, DirecTV, Xbox Live, and Sony TVs. And pretty soon I'll need to have Sony, Disney, Hulu, Apple, Youtube, Netflix, Vudu/MGM, Prime, Facebook, xFinity, DirecTV/HBO/WatchTV (figure your shit out ATT). And that still leaves me without access to anything CBS/Viacom/Paramount, except what comes from DirecTV and VRV. Who am I trusting to make my multi-service experience the most pleasant; Roku, Apple, Google?

Ecosystem commitment is maddening, and paradox of choice has never made not participating more attractive.

> What differentiates google for me is the SERVICES they offer: gmail, maps, search, photos, voice search, voice transcription, google voice.

If you own almost any Android phone, you have all these services. Heck, if you own an iPhone you can still get all these services (just not as defaults).

Those services being tied RIGHT INTO the OS is a huge advantage. Thats arguably what the SHELL is. My interface between me and (facebook | microsoft | google | apple | amazon) services. Using iOS as a google app launcher is a complete waste of integration and usability potential.

Take for example JUST google photos. When I say service, I mean a best in class experience across my phone, my kitchen screen-speaker, laptop, desktop, and living room tv. Google photos does not live up to its full potential from a phone alone.

A service gives me consistent access to the same data, from a variety of interfaces. Each interface is tailored to use cases for that device type. Desktop interfaces are going to be more powerful than tablet, tv, or kitchen screen-speaker.

It's the same reason I prefer Facebook Messenger to text messaging. Works great from any device I sign into.

(Not being able to set defaults is inexcusable at this point as a product, and borderline anticompetitive. Microsoft is playing an equally dangerous game with Edge.)

Note to people in the EU. Google does some fuckery to show regional pages, and will only show the pixel 3 for France for instance.

The whole range of announced products: https://store.google.com/us/?hl=en-US&countryRedirect=true

Personally, I always go to Wikipedia for these sorts of things. Information density is so much higher:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Google_Pixel_sma...

Looks like the Pixel 3 stats aren't up yet, but I assume the Wikipedia editors are working on that.

(Also very useful for figuring out what changes between iPhone/Mac revisions.)

I can't even look at the comparison page without being in the correct country. sighs

Is there a way to deep link to a country specific google store? I get redirected to a locale that doesn't sell any of the pixel products, so they just don't exists on the product pages when I follow the links

https://store.google.com/countrypicker will let you choose your country.

All of those images scaling for no reason gives me a bit of motion sickness.

the images list them all as 5.5" across the diagonal, but the text varies with 5.0" for the pixel and 5.5 for the pixel 2/3.

I really wish Google would sell a good value (Nexus level prices) phone again, so I can own a phone with stock Android. You can get good hardware for half the price of Google's pixel phones; the downside is the crappy Android versions on them.

(thanks for the suggestions on close-to-stock-Android hardware)

The Android One phones (https://www.android.com/one/) are running stock Android and provide 2 years of Android OS updates and 3 year of security updates.

Christ, being happy for “2 years of Android os updates” reminds me how awful is the android ecosystem. IPhone 5s, a phone from 5 years ago is running the latest iOS without any problem.

Keep in mind that the phone manufacture is tasked with providing those updates for Android One devices.

It was once going to be Google providing them but they changed the site a while back.... that makes me skeptical about when / if you get those updates...

Google has been struggling to get manufactures to do updates and backpedaling on Android One's updates doesn't have me optimistic.

For people who want to buy phones in the several-hundred-dollar range, 2 years of official updates really isn't sufficient. My Nexus 4 lasted 4 or 5 years, the last few on unofficial firmware - but I shouldn't have had to use third party firmware on a device that was working just fine.

I know someone who has an Android One Motorola, while they like stock Android, updates are still really slow for reasons unknown. There was also no beta during Pie.

Definitely isn't a full Nexus or Pixel experience unfortunately.

I have one of the first android one phones!

I'm scared to root it. Because they don't provide factory images and the update process is very fragile.

It's a far cry from Nexus.

Are there any Android One devices available in the US?

I find it really annoying that phones need so much hand holding from OEMs to keep up to date. Imagine the backlash if a Windows OEM said that: a.) you could only get OS updates from them, and b.) you'd only get 2 years of updates.

That's 2 years assuming you buy it on launch day, significantly less for most people.

The death of the Nexus / privacy concerns is why I'm tempted to flee to Apple. I've never used an iPhone but if I'm gonna pay top dollar for a Google branded type phone .... why not consider an iPhone / the privacy concerns I have and etc too?

All the other Android manufactures have been so hit and miss I'm not really interested in them as an alternative.

You will miss the openess of Android. I tried a couple of times going back to an iPhone, but always ended up selling it after 6 months.

For example, iOS doesn't let you change default apps (e.g. browser). Also their third party keyboard integration is not so great.

If you're not constrained by the hardware, then take the time to install LineageOS (https://lineageos.org/). If you need Google's flavour of Android you can get it from OpenGAPPS (https://opengapps.org/).

I did it for my mom's phone and most recently my own (which until I hit some software issues was running Google stock). It's really easy nowadays, with some tech skills and assuming your phone isn't obscure.

I just got a Pixel 1 planning to do that very thing. I thought I was getting a great deal; they're about $200 on Amazon.

I ran into an apparently common issue where it won't connect to Windows through its bundled USB cable (or any other USB cable...).

Plugging it into my external monitor, which is also a USB hub, solved that problem. Except that in bootloader mode, it is once again unrecognized, making it impossible to unlock.

I just bought a $159 Xiaomi Mi A2 Lite (Android One/Stock, US ATT or T-Mobile Compatible) to replace my original Pixel XL and I can't tell much of a difference except for the Camera. It has a much smaller notch than the Pixel 3 and will receive updates I believe until 2021 or further. Some small corners were cut, but it punches way above its price point.

I have nothing but praise for Xiaomi products. They are phenomenal value.

I have a Xiaomi Redmi 4x, which cost me $140 and has perfectly smooth performance. The camera isn't terrible either, it does the trick. Best of all, spare parts are cheap and easy to find. I completely shattered the screen on my phone, it was only $20 to get a complete new screen assembly (lcd, digitiser, and frame), which I'm fairly sure is OEM. I broke the ear speaker in the process of replacing the screen, only $1 to get a new one shipped from China. I can literally make a phone from parts, I can even buy the motherboard on Aliexpress.

Xiaomi have really good build quality too, and their their custom version of Android isn't terrible.

I also have a Xiaomi bluetooth speaker that I bought for $30, which performs as well as a speaker 2-3 times the price. It's built out of solid aluminium too, so it can take an absolute beating.

Its a little bit of a stretch to call it ATT or T-mobile compatible. It only supports 2 of the 6 LTE bands T-mobile uses, and ATT is similar.

How do you buy Xiaomi phones in US?

Try the Nokia phones by HMD, they're almost stock Android (only diff is you can't remove some Nokia apps without root)

Nokia doesn't allow bootloader unlocking, which should be a giant "nope" for anyone reading something called hacker news…

Meanwhile Xiaomi's Android One devices (not MIUI) are just 'fastboot oem unlock' without any key requests, just like good old Nexuses.

Motorola's Moto G series is in the $200-$300 price range and run vanilla Android with one or two apps pre-installed. I'm big fan of my Moto G5s.

https://productdork.com/t/moto-g5s-plus-review/13

agreed. I have a Moto g5 plus and apart from a not top of the line camera - it is pretty great for the price and has a nice clean vanilla android.

Nokia could be an option: they have big range of devices in various price ranges, build quality is decent, runs near stock Android and updates are one of fastest, compared to other brands. Sadly, not all devices have unlockable bootloader and kernel sources for some are still missing.

I think that's what OnePlus is doing these days. Not sure if you have heard of this youtuber @mkbhd he recently made a video that OnePlus 6 became his daily driver from Pixel 2. OnePlus 6 devices already run Android Oreo based OS.

Yes... but. OnePlus prices are rising at pace. I think my 3T was £309 some 2 years ago in the UK, where the 6 is £519 and the 6T is expected to be more again.

Also, where the Nexus phones were supported for at least 3 years the 3T wasn't going to get Android Pie just 2 years after release, but it seems it now will (eventually).

I agree it's been filling the segment, but I'm not sure it's continuing to, sadly. Don't get me wrong, they still seem to be beating Apple and Google in terms of bang for buck, but they're definitely chasing up the ladder after them.

I got a OnePlus 3 based on this kind of recommendation when Google discontinued their reasonably-priced-phones strategy and came out with the Pixel instead.

It works fine, but it's so large that it hurts my hand. And OnePlus appears to be committed to making only comically oversized phones. Very sad.

The Nokia 6.1 is on sale for $230 at Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B4KPFKM/

Just my 2 cents, I own a Nokia 6.1 and bought it for the exact reasons OP had, a cheap stock android phone. Unfortunately the hardware is really poor and I still don't have Android 9 available to me yet. The camera is really really bad, it sometimes shows a photo has been taken and when you view it later it turns out the shutter captured whatever was in view 2 seconds later. Something is also really wrong with the audio firmware, music will just stop randomly followed by a loud pop, it's like a buffer overflows or something.

Android One phones are pretty close to stock.

https://www.android.com/one/

One more alternative, buy used Pixels, I just bought a Pixel 2 yesterday for $325. Less than half what the Pixel 3 starts for. Sure, it is small risk but if you would prefer less risk you can get certified refurbished ones for just a bit more from Amazon or Best Buy. I live outside the US so I used ebay as they do international shipping. Lastly, you get 3 of OS and security updates (2 years from now of course since it is a year old), this is the first Google phone to get updates for this long, all previous devices were 2 years.

Asus zenfone max pro M1 has a close-to-stock version of Android 8.1. I am using it for the past couple of months and pretty happy with the phone.

What about Xiaomi Mi A1/A2? They are not from Google, but they come with stock Android and are great for the price.

Using mi a2 for last 2 months. A android one phone. Stock android, no bloat, very good looking hardware.. Overall a good value, but software is slightly buggy (occasional heating, random boots) and no clear communication on software upgrade policy

A Nexus level priced value product running stock Android would cannibalize Pixel sales. Google made the Pixel a premium product specifically for those who care about stock Android. People who buy value phones don't care about stock Android.

> People who buy value phones don't care about stock Android.

What does this even mean? I mean, since there are no cheap stock-Android phones clearly anyone who buys a cheap phone doesn't only care about stock Android.

But it's absolutely possible for someone to (1) want a phone at non-"premium" prices and (2) want a phone running stock Android. The fact that they then have to pick at most one of those two because no one but Google makes stock-Android phones and Google have gone premium-only doesn't mean that they don't, or shouldn't, want both.

I bought the Nexus 7 Plus below 300 Euro. You can also get the Pixel 2 (and sometime in the future also Pixel 3) camera apk running on it in a modified version. Side note: It has also one of the best cameras on phones in this price area.

I really wish someone would do another solid 7-8" Android (or ChromeOS) tablet. That felt like a perfect form factor - I could even still pocket it in a vest.

Alas, most of what's still on the market is either ancient (and not getting new Android updates), or cheap low-res junk, or usually both. The only exception seems to be MediaPad M5, and Huawei screwed that one up by reporting it to the apps as a phone rather than as a tablet; and then there's the whole shared antenna issue (basically if you use Bluetooth, your WiFi is an order of magnitude slower).

And I'm not holding much hope for sub-10" ChromeOS tablets. It seems that everybody just wrote that market off.

Nexus 7 is a tablet without Plus model. Are you thinking of 6P?

Nokia seems to have taken that mantle with all phones being Android One.

Currently the Nokia phones are the best option for it.

What a terrible live event. The presenters were awful. Okay not everyone is a natural presenter so if you don't have such people in your product management team just hire some!

As for the products. Groan. What is there to be excited about exactly? The new tablet (slate?) goes up to $1600(!) and doesn't even include a keyboard (an extra $200 for that). The videos of it seem to show it as a laggy mess as well. Hopefully it isn't like that on release.

The Home Hub does not interest me. At all. At least it doesn't have a camera though.

But the real let down is the new Pixel 3 is just so meh. A bizarrely large notch yet a large chin still? Two front facing cameras but still a single rear. Why? Are super selfie takes the biggest buyers for Pixel phones? I take a few selfies now and then but I would much rather a second 2x camera for proper zoom and not some fancy digital zoom powered by AI from my hand tremors.

I can't see any reason to replace my Pixel 2 XL if I am honest, especially at those prices.

Also what happened to the whole "you think you know" social media trolling Google was doing? Turns out yes we did know. Literally everything leaked. So bizarre.

I've bought the last two pixels on release day (as well as multiple Nexus before that). I absolutely loved my Pixel 1, but was actually fairly disappointed in my Pixel 2 as it feels so much more fragile and buggy that the Pixel 1. Honestly, I have been looking forward to upgrading to the Pixel 3 for probably 4 months now.

Unfortunately, after seeing what they put out today, I'll probably be looking at other models instead. This phone just looks so "meh" and yet it has such a premium price attached to it. It's almost a bit insulting that they raised the base price and dropped the value they are giving for trade-ins.

I woke up this morning expecting to spend $300 (after trade in) on a slight upgrade to my current phone and they've managed to some how managed to lose me as a customer after seeing what they offered.

> Turns out yes we did know. Literally everything leaked.

Well, rumors a few months ago were that plans had leaked for a third device that would be the spiritual successor to the Nexus line, with stock android at reasonable prices.

We thought we knew, but it seems like a jerk move for Google to make fun of us over our vain hope they'd put out something we wanted.

I've been told the Android One program is the spiritual successor to the Nexus line. Does anybody with more knowledge or experience feel like commenting on that? Do those phones get updates as reliably as a Nexus would in the past?

Also, how does one shop for a phone these days when you want plain old Android and sensible security updates but have other feature concerns as well? I don't want a flagship phone, don't want a giant phablet, and care more about offline GPS performance than data performance...

I am still carrying a Moto G4 Play which I think is borderline too big. It still lasts almost a week on one charge when I take it into the woods in airplane mode and just use the camera app and OSMAnd+ with GPS logging for 3-4 hours per day.

Same thing could have been said about the Pixel 2 but you bought one anyway. They will sell because people settle for well-known and good, not new features.

Isn't consensus that Google's phone sales volume is pretty low? I don't think that they are well-known in non-tech circles; although I would agree that's not about new features / presentation.

Okay, so. Have we reached diminishing returns with smartphones? Because it really feels that way.

I'm sure this new Pixel is better than the previous one, but we're starting to have conversations around _not_ buying the $1k phone for its camera, and instead buying two devices for $500 each that are better.

I personally feel like even four iPhone generations ago, the iPhone was "good enough" and that the software is really what needs to be improved.

The market is basically in a holding pattern. New features tend to be situational and the performance improvements are pretty modest year-over-year. What's more, even old phones are fast enough for most uses, so even when the new one is 50% faster that's not a huge deal. It's hard to justify $800 to make a webpage load in .75 seconds instead of 1 second.

I'm still using my iPhone 6 and iOS 10 (I have some 32 bit apps that I still use). I'm considering swapping the battery instead of buying a new phone. Right now I would only upgrade if I severely broke it.

In some ways it would be a downgrade, because I use the headphone jack to wire it into my car's audio when doing navigation, and plug it into the cig lighter because navigation is a battery hog. It's pretty clear that Apple has no intention of ever bringing back the headphone jack.

Maybe I could find a bluetooth adapter on a headphone jack? I wonder if it could draw enough power from the headphone jack to not need a battery? Probably not.

I upgraded from iPhone 6 to iPhone XS and if I am 100% honest I don't feel a massive difference. New screen is really nice and I am surprised that I actually like face id much more than the fingerprint scanner. But on a day-to-day activity scale ... browsing facebook, reddit, youtube, playing games, etc. ... I often struggle to notice any real difference, even in how quick apps start. I don't regret it because I know I won't have to worry about upgrades for another 2-3 years.

But I can highly recommend the battery replacement for the iPhone 6. I was luck (unlucky?) enough to get the discounted battery replacement due to mine failing. After I got that it was a significant improvement.

I have a 6s+ that I traded the battery and rear camera out at an Apple Store for less than $100 total. My rear camera was very shaky and would never focus on images so they came out blurry. I think it's totally worth a battery replacement and using your hardware as long as you can. My battery life is way better now and I'm back to going days(!) without charging.

The issue with that plan is that, with iOS 12 being released, lots of developers are going to start dropping support for iOS 10.

I personally wish folks would make phone upgrade decisions with battery replacements in mind. (I am guilty of this too, of course!)

If you're happy with your phone two years on, you probably get much more bang for your buck paying $79 for a new battery than $749 or $999 or whatever for a new device.

Especially with Apple's current $29 for all recent models. Take an iPhone SE, 2016 price $400, now sells around... $100 on eBay, so that's let's say a rough $150 for an ok phone with a fresh battery. It will probably last another, what, year or two? You can browse the web with it, and install apps. I use one every day and let me tell you: it's fine. It works, it's not frustrating.

Are these new phones really $1000/$150 ≈ 6 times better?

If you're a VC or early Google employee: sure, by all means. But $1000 for a phone when $150 will do; I find it hard to stomach.

Yeah the iPhone 6S with its much improved SSD and CPU/SoC was really a game changer. With a new battery and iOS 12 I’m still really happy with mine.

Just brought in my 6s for the $29 battery replacement. Hanging on to this thing as long as I can.

I agree. I don't want a new phone right now, I just want to keep getting software improvements. I still have the OG Pixel and I really don't want to replace it. It has a headphone jack and it still runs as well as it did day 1. Unfortunately google will probably stop supporting it soon forcing me to get a new pixel to keep getting software updates.

Same here. OG pixel and I'm basically waiting for next year when we stop getting security updates.

I think that point was reached about 4-5 years ago which is why I don't understand the prices of these phones. They offer literally nothing over a $200-$300 phone. Nothing. Diminishing returns? More like no returns and just a waste of money. Apple is a fashion brand nowadays and Google is trying to become one too. No thanks.

If you're not using iPhones, I think so. Apple is the only one adding features worth upgrading for, maybe not every year, but definitely at least every other year.

What features were "worth upgrading for" for you?

Yes. iPhone 6s is what I’m sticking with until they double the battery life (in real use, not watching a video) or do something else I might actually care about.

I upgraded from the iPhone 6 Plus to the iPhone XS Max, on a complete whim. The biggest difference is of course, snappiness of applications. The OS, not so much, because I think Apple does a good job at maintaining iOS. But Spotify used to take 8 seconds to cold boot for me on my 6 Plus, and sub-second on the XS Max.

I would love to see hardware upgrades halt for five years while we all (collectively) get our software shit together and optimize everything for performance. That'll never happen, because I think it's in our human nature to Get Things Done in the short-term with compromises that affect the long-term.

Poor software performance is our digital world's global warming.

I like how if you go to https://store.google.com/product/pixel_3_how_to_buy and click on any of the company names under "Find your phone. Get up to $300 back" you will be redirected to Google's internal corporate SSO page:

https://imgur.com/a/DkmG4uL

I don't think Google has any "internal" networks, or at least not many. I think you can get to any of Google's "corporate" SSO login pages.

I could be remembering wrong.

I was hoping they'd release the next Pixelbook. Really wanted to try that as my next developer laptop. May be next year.

Pixel Slate is great but I can't hold it on my lap while sitting, lying on a couch or my bed. Given I spend all my working hours using my laptop, devices like Pixel Slate and Surface Pro are a no-go.

Only if they built a stronger keyboard with a adjustable latch that could hold the tablet body. I wouldn't mind the extra weight if it meant that it wouldn't need support and could be held just like a laptop in any position.

> I was hoping they'd release the next Pixelbook. Really wanted to try that as my next developer laptop.

I bought one last year to try as my dev computer and I'm back to my 2015 mac book. I'm not a fan of the keyboard on it, the battery life isn't as good as I thought it would be, I don't like having a touch screen on my dev machine, but I think the biggest factor in me switching back is that it feels like the remote development services just aren't there yet. I'd get into a coding session and then half way through have some issue with Cloud9 (or a different online IDE, I tried multiple) and it would pull me out of my flow.

I don't plan to use Cloud9 or anything like that. I want to try out native linux apps for development while using Chrome and Android apps for other workflows.

> Only if they built a stronger keyboard with a adjustable latch that could hold the tablet body.

ThinkPad X1 Tablet[1] seems to fit your description perfectly.

[1] https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/tablets/windows-tablets/thinkpa...

It doesn't run ChromeOS. I don't want a tablet. I want a laptop that ships with the new Linux-enabled ChromeOS.

Our CTO has slate and I'm pretty sure he regrets not getting a laptop.

After bad experiences with hardware reliably and support on the Nexus 5 and Nexus 6p, I will not be buying another piece of Google hardware.

Although, I must say, the vanilla Android software experience is top notch. I'd just rather install / customize it on more reliable hardware with better support (my op5t has been amazing!)

I'm on my third Nexus 5x. The first Boot-looped thanksgiving 6 months after I bought it, the 2nd boot-looped during christmas the next year. The third has stayed steady, I've just avoided all holidays.

I bought a pixel (2nd hand, dumb mistake) and then it bricked itself within 3 months. Went back to my repaired Nexus 5x.

Google's hardware is awful and their support is an opaque cloud of pretty UIs and unhelpful people.

Should have gotten a 1+

Just to add my data point --

I've had every Nexus and Pixel starting with the Galaxy Nexus.

Never had an issue with any of them until my most recent Pixel 2 XL where some cables stopped charging the device. One quick open chat on the Google store and I had a replacement sent immediately for free.

Was the 5x thing Google's fault or LG's? I blamed LG and I won't buy another one of their phones for awhile.

I was going to put up with my 5x until the pixel 3 came out, but it became unbearably slow to use as of this spring. So I bought the Motorola x4 under the Android one banner and I couldn't be happier. I think I paid $150 for it after getting $100 for my 5x. The battery life lasts all day and I can use Snapchat on the phone. I regret not upgrading to a "budget" phone earlier.

Yikes, I did pretty much this. Went from two 5x's (I really love the form factor) to a used pixel one. So far it hasn't bricked - is that a known issue like the 5x bootloop?

I have a small set of Nexus 5x phones that I manage, and 50% of them have bootlooped.

I've loved my 6p, but it's gotten slow AF in the last year or so. I replaced the battery after it stopped lasting more than half a day, and thought that might solve the issue. But it's still intermittently slow.

I'd love to keep it, but it's gotten quite annoying to have to wait for it to respond. I guess it could be malware on it, but it could also be just the hardware not lasting as long as I would hope it would.

I'd like to upgrade, but I don't want to spend $1000+.

Anyone running a Huawei phone that they've flash with a custom firmware? I was thinking of going that route, as it's significantly cheaper.

Same experience here with the 6p. Battery dying early and now the wifi chip is very unreliable.

Only problem is I'm using Google Fi, and I'd like to keep using it. So I don't know what other type of Google Fi-compatible phone to buy.

After 5x bootloop I also quit Google hardware. Bought a cheaper phone that I won't feel bad about replacing at 18 months if it happens.

I'm the same after my Pixel 2 experience.

Really? I love my Pixel 2. First phone I haven't rooted (so I can underclock and get a decent battery life). I'm curious what problems you have had (and if I might expect them. But I've had this for awhile now)

And I don't see myself buying the Pixel 3. Just seems like a $100 price increase for lower aesthetics. I can't see any meaningful differences in this new phone.

Can you elaborate on that please? I'm actually looking at buying one since there should be a price drop happening on them.

I just realized that the $549 Surface Go comes with a Pentium Gold (more powerful than the Celeron), double the storage, and double the RAM for $50 cheaper than the base model Pixel Slate ($250 cheaper if you include the keyboards). Furthermore, a Surface Pro with a Core i5, 8GB of RAM, and 128GB of storage is $100 cheaper than the equivalent Pixel Slate, and $170 cheaper once you factor in the costs of the keyboards.

> Google Photos gives you free, unlimited online storage for all your original quality photos and 4K videos.

So what will happen to your photos when Google decides to "sunset" Google Photos?

Also, what happens to your phone/contacts/purchases when Google (AI?) decides you have violated YouTube T&C and locks your account?

Edit: Finally, are your phone data used for improving the targeted ads?

> So what will happen to your photos when Google decides to "sunset" Google Photos?

I'm pretty sure you can export your photos from Gooogle Photos via Google Takeout:

https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190?hl=en

If Google sunsets Google Photos, they absolutely will provide a way to export them first.

Obvious suggestion, but: this is why I have my phone automatically copy new pictures to Google Pictures, OneDrive, and Dropbox as soon as my phone gets on a good wifi connection.

Maybe I'm naïve but I really cannot imagine Google shutting down Photos with no notice. So if they say they are closing it, I'll just downloaded them en masse and upload elsewhere.

May I ask which software/app you use that can do this?

They may have changed it, but if I remember correctly that guarantee in the original quality only lasts for 2 years. So after uploading photos for 2 years, everything is converted to lower quality. They'll also implicitly use your photos for facial recognition and I don't believe there's a way to disable this "feature."

The Pixels get 3 years of free full quality photo uploads and after the 3 years, any new photos uploaded from the phone are compressed. Existing photos do not get downgraded.

See the fine print at the bottom of these pages:

https://store.google.com/product/pixel_2

https://store.google.com/product/pixel_3

Anecdotally, I was the early user of Picassa that was shut down and all my photos have been automatically migrated to Google Photos, so I would still give Google a benefit of the doubt. But recent stunts from them make it more and more difficult to trust them.

Uhh, is it just me or did Google just take Apple's tablet and phone lines and do straight up copies of both? Because the Pixel 3 looks awfully like the iPhone X and the Pixel Slate has some similarity to the iPad Pro. I know companies copy each other, but this is quite literally notch for notch.

I think people give Apple way more credit for their "innovations" than it should be due. For example, the people in this thread who think that Apple came out with the notch first.

Even if they didn't do it first, at least Apple has a plausible claim for why they did it -- the iPhone screen goes all the way to the bottom edge. The Pixel doesn't have that restriction, so why do a notch?

The thing that really irritates me about a notch on the Pixel (or any other Android phone) is that it's much more intrusive. Not just taller (though it is), but on iOS notifications are not handled the same way, so you're not really giving much of anything up with the notch. But on Android, notifications frequently take the entire top of the screen -- right where that notch is. Seems unnecessarily clumsy.

Apple has definitely copied features, and even a few design elements (see Palm Pre UI), but they always tweak them to make the product appear unique and "innovative". With the Pixel 3 and the Pixel Slate, even the most oblivious customer can see the resemblance with Apple's products. That, combined with the lower price points, kind of gives the impression that Google's trying to make cheaper versions of Apple's products. I know, not logical, but people don't always like cheaper.

Right so Google was actually aping someone else and hadn't even noticed that iphones have that notch.

Be real here, it isn't a big deal, but they clearly set out to mimic the Apple counterparts.

> the people in this thread who think that Apple came out with the notch first.

I thought they did too. Which phone/manufacturer did it before?

They copied everything except the distribution network.

You can buy Apple products in the EU, the pixel slate? Not so much.

Here in NZ, if it isn't a Chromecast, it isn't on their store.

Everyone is doing the notch now, there were notch androids out there before the pixel 3 photos leaked.

Essential showed their notch what, one and a half years ago?

Apple is good at making features user-friendly, but rarely are breaking completely new ground. Perhaps it's easy to miss that if one doesn't follow tech that closely.

I notice this more and more with software as well.

The other day I had to double check what map app I was using because the latest google maps completely rips off the nicer elements of apple maps.

More and more I develop a dislike for google that harkens back to the dislike people had for microsoft a while back.

My big question about the Slate is its ergonomics (with keyboard) relative to a regular laptop/Chromebook. It looks to be somewhat better ("snaps in place") and the keyboard is approximately "normal." But there's still something folded behind the tablet/screen in the photo.

My issue with all these combo devices is that they're not as good for using a laptop in all sorts of random locations and positions--which pretty much describes how I use them at events and otherwise traveling. Some are better than others but I've yet to have anyone tell me that they're just as good as a laptop for using on your lap--which is sort a dealbreaker for me.

As I understand it, Google was also rumored to be announcing a more conventional PixelBook upgrade at this event but that didn't happen.

How good can you develop, let's say something easy, for example some python + Postgres + node.js on a Chromebook like the Pixel Slate without rooting or removing ChromeOS?

Provided the Linux container system works well on it - it should be easily possible. Whether the UX is good for a developer workflow I can't be sure. Users at reddit.com/r/chromeos seem to be able to do some good dev work on crostini-enabled devices.

You can’t run docker normally on ChromeOS you can run it on some chromebooks that support dual booting with something like GalliumOS, or rooting the machine and running your Linux distro in a container/chroot.

Unless you are severely strapped for cash and can’t find the same low end chromebook hardware in a low end windows form factor that can be simply reinstalled over there is absolutely no reason to even consider using a chromebook for anything other than it was intended unless you are rooting it for a hobby.

People abuse the fact that you can sometimes find them for sub $200 for $300-400 worth of hardware but it’s a hack on top of a hack to make it run anything.

Any Crostini supported device works fine. Obviously more RAM and better CPU means a better experience.

I have a basic Acer with a Celeron and 4GB of RAM. Been running VS Code and node to develop React Native apps. Can even load the Expo Android app from the Play Store, no separate Android device required!

Some Crostini info: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/master/c...

Not sure about the slate, but I have a Pixelbook, which is my personal laptop, and the crostini Linux integration is great for development. Specifically, I use it for Rust programming, and have compiled a couple of C++ projects too.

The Terminal app that comes with the Linux install is good, supports tmux etc.

There is clipboard integration between the pixelbook host and the container. File sharing is also easy with the file manager being able to drag andd drop files in and out of the container.

I can use Firefox inside the container, which is what I usually use to browse.

Theoretically you have access to the lxc tool inside the top level container, so you could create multiple containers and possibly set up complicated networking setups between them, but I've not tried this.

I've done Python webapp development on an unmodified Chromebook that supported Android apps via Termux. The only catch was that the network layer doesn't make 127.0.0.1 the same for Chrome and Android so I ended up testing in Android Firefox, which is hilarious but worked fine.

Locally? You can’t really unless you are just looking for a text editor with markup.

Not true, ChromeOS now has a Linux container stack with apt.

Not true. You have Android apps and GNU/Linux on device.

just get a surface pro

Would love to know when I can get the Pixel 3 from sombebody besides Verizon or Google. Google keeps shipping us empty boxes and has shut down our network guy's personal account. We even had the fedex guy witness opening the third empty box. Fedex says it's Google's fault, Google says we're stealing phones.

So, we can't get it until they start selling from anybody besides Google or Verizon. Sounds like that will be November first.

empty box sounds pretty suspicious. weight sensors should catch that. you should record video of any other box opening you do.

I was underwhelmed with the specs. Only 128gb storage? Processor improved, and I guess image processing software improved... maybe that's all that should be expected after 1 year? But the iPhone seems like a huge contrast... 512gb storage available? Both of them offer cloud storage, but the 512gb option is amazing to have on the device.

Pixel comes with unlimited photo and video storage in the cloud, and will automatically delete backed up photos and videos if you start running out of storage. Any phone besides a pixel I would need above 128gb, but with the storage management I've never run out of space on my 64gb pixel 2 xl.

Why are we putting all of this storage into phones? Are you looking to keep all of your photos on your phone so when you break it/get it stolen you lose all your photos?

It just doesn't make sense. I download more movies than I can watch more music than I can listen to for flights, more apps than I use, take more videos and photos than I will ever use. The google photos app auto-deletes my old backed up videos/photos as needed unlike on Apple devices where you have to delete the folder yourself. I never run out at 64GB.

What's with the notch? I don't follow smartphones very closely, is a notch something we want and is worth copying Apple?

Apple did not come out with the notch first. https://www.quora.com/How-do-people-keep-forgetting-that-App...

Sure, but that's not really the point. Apple didn't copy anybody when they used the notch — they were trying to make an edge-to-edge display and had to make a concession to house the front-facing camera and additional sensors for Face ID.

But ever since Apple released the iPhone X, suddenly there are notched phones everywhere. And these phones don't seem to be trying for an edge-to-edge display, so it's curious that they would choose to adopt a notch unless they're just trying to copy Apple. (Which is a viable suggestion since the smartphone market is more or less divided into Apple and Everybody Else.)

Thank you for sharing this; I hope more people can see this. Apple gets the credit for this notch when it was the Essential phone that implemented the idea first. At least in the Essential phone their notch was so minimal to just get the camera to fit that it was not very intrusive. Even though I'm not a fan of a notch, this worked fine.

It increases screen space for apps to use by pushing the 'taskbar' up. Other than an aesthetic complaint I don't see how this can be a bad thing.

Well, that's where all the Android notifications usually go, so ... that seems like a downside of having a notch?

It's tech fashion - like bellbottoms.

I used to think people were crazy when they complained about this potential future, but it's here.

Perhaps, like when Apple "invented" the modern smartphone form factor a decade ago, it's the best usable form factor that everyone else recognizes and emulates (though the Oppo Find X seems to have a notch free version...)

Evidently it is something "we" want. I personally think it looks awful. Just compare the Pixel 3 and the Pixel 3 XL on the techspecs page. I think the normal top looks much better.

https://store.google.com/product/pixel_3_specs

I don't understand it either. It was a really weird design choice facilitated by Apple. My assumption is that Google doesn't want to be seen as a non-innovator by not having a notch in their phones.

If someone else can provide a more plausible reason, I'm all ears =D

I never got the impression anyone was saying the notch was inherently good. It was just better (as a tradeoff) than having to forgo the screen across the entire width of the device.

Not sure how these are better than buying a 2-year old iPhone (which has better support, better UX, and better resale value)

You could also say "not sure how these are better than buying a 2-year old pixel". If good-enough is what you want, there are a ton of options, I won't disagree. I buy latest (at the time) phones because I plan to hang onto them for 3-4 years at a time.

So its really all about what you are looking for in a phone. If you think Apple has better UX and you don't mind the direction their hardware is going or have any aversions to their ecosystem, then, by all means, get an iPhone.

I loved how they kept harping on how the tablet didn't run a phone OS. Yet for the price of what they are asking you can get a surface that doesn't run a browser OS. That tablet is dead on arrival with those prices. Even microsoft charges less for the keyboard for the surface. It's not a cheap Nexus 7 tablet, Amazon took that market share, it's not a competitor to the iPad, and it's not a Surface competitor.

How can they write a blog post about new products with no links to actually buy said product? I see this a lot with corporate blogs. Why don’t they link to the corporate homepage or to the store where I can buy the product?

No headphone jack, I'll be sticking with the original pixel for a while longer

If that's what you're looking for in a new phone you'll have to stick with it forever.

Samsung is still sticking with headphones jacks in their phones, and Nokia has them in many of their phones as well. It's not a completely lost cause.

or at least until bluetooth headphones on android stops being garbage.

Wonder when Google will abandon this tablet like the 6 previous ones? 6 months? 12?

It's a ChromeOS device - most of them had at least 4 years of support.

Although I had 10" tablets including an iPad, I and others at work found both versions of the Nexus 7 tablets very useful.

Even with my 1 yr old iPad, still have the Nexus 7 charged and use at times. (Just the screen won't rotate anymore to landscape after the last few OS upgrades lol)

When Google decided to abandon that line and their Nexus phones, it was pretty shocking - and telling. Approximately 10+ friends, family and colleagues went to other brands or iPad Minis.

Honestly this is my biggest fear adopting any new google product

They keep abandoning it !

I own a Nexus 10 and it's still good.

Google made [non-Android] tablets in the past?

This image from the product page made me laugh:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/DzUW6cuCUFirvQPz9

Trying to stay ahead of the current trend toward larger phones.

Lack of headphone jack will drive me to Samsung in the next iteration. As a long-time Google phone fan(Nexus series and now a Pixel XL) this is a saddening trend.

Product page is a mess - why no simple 1 page per item that shows whats new rather multiple articles spread out over different links? I had to go to theverge to understand what was launched

The $599 Slate model has an Intel Celeron SoC. :( You need to spend $799 for m3 SoC base model.

Snapdragon 845 with 4GB of RAM? This is essentially a Pixel 2 XL with a notch. 4GB of ram is going to be atrocious right out of the box, and good luck in a year or two.

I’m not sure why you think 4gb of RAM isn’t enough. I was using a pixel 2 with 4GB up until a week ago and it still runs perfectly.

No headphone jack. No memory expansion slot. No removable battery. Made in China. $800 for the cheapest model (64G 5.5"). If I weren't trying to move away from Google right now, I'd be interested. But this is not priced to be an impulse purchase.

Its specs are approximately equivalent to the Samsung S8 -- similar screen (5.5" vs Samsung 5.8"), same IP68 water resistance, edge, Bluetooth 5. But there the similarities end.

S8 and S8+ and later models still have memory expansion. I have a 128gb card in my 64gb S8+, for example, for a total of 172gb. S8, S8+, and the S9 series also have retained a headphone jack. I seem to recall Google making fun of Apple for eliminating theirs, and now they have followed suit.

In my opinion, Google should just designate a best of breed phone, e.g. the Samsung, as its flagship Android, and stop trying to market a "pure Android experience". They've never been very successful with hardware -- maybe the Chromecast was a hit, but their Nexus phones (of which I bought four) have been mediocre.

> "We’ve integrated Titan™ Security, the system we built for Google, into our new mobile devices. Titan™ Security protects your most sensitive on-device data by securing your lock screen and strengthening disk encryption."

Anyone have more information about this new security chip in the Pixel 3? Is this any different from secure boot and the security chip from the Pixel 2?

I thought Titan was Google's FIDO 2FA devices, like a Yubikey.

Found an intriguing tidbit when reading about the Pixel Slate's version of Chrome OS:

> You can even run Linux if you’re a developer.

I wonder what exactly this means. What distro? How locked-down will my device be under this distro? Does this mean we now have a real, live Linux tablet?

Display for the slate looks fantastic, the idea seams right, but I just don't see a legitimate reason to drop another $1K to upgrade from my Pixelbook.

The Pixelbook at least has a keyboard, works great on the lap (hence the name LAPtop), does pretty much the same as the Slate.

Kinda disappointed. I have Pixel XL and was hoping to upgrade this year. But this phone doesn't look like an upgrade except for few minor software enhancements. Maybe I'll switch to iPhone for next 2 years.

Any pixel owners planning to get Pixel 3 ?

Have you considered inviting Satan into your life?

/snark

The removal of the headphone jack is just stupid, and annoying. The fact that I've had no shortage of issues with my car and bluetooth since Oreo (except for 2 months of late betas for P that worked, only to have it break again after the public release). Screwing up hangouts, which was once such a great messaging app everywhere I needed, and voice integration worked great.

Broken and inconsistent "groups" management. Just plain unfinished web interfaces all around. It reminds me of Windows 8... mostly shiny, but some truly ugly areas with it. Not to mention AMP and so many other things they've done that don't really make anything better.

The headphone jack removal problem is entirely solved by a $10 dongle that (I think) comes with the phone unless you need to charge and listen at the same time, which is an edge case for most people.

Wtf, they couldn't even make the top and bottom borders have equal height in a $800 phone (the smaller Pixel)? Who's in charge of hardware design at Google, Apple would never release this.

I am surprised no one is talking about privacy. In my view, buying a phone from an advertising company is insane. Think about your phone - everything about your life is in this one device.

I don't care if Pixel 3 was twice the performance and features than iPhone. Fundamentally, I have a problem with this device and it has little do with petty details such as megapixels and build quality.

Google is not interested in selling you hardware without "free" Google services built in. If they were, they would be a hardware company, not an advertisement company.

Apple isn't perfect either. I'm not trying to defend Google, but Apple is going after the right to repair and trying to make it illegal for you to repair your own device, let alone 3rd parties to.

So if you're someone who respects your right to repair and won't pay for Apple products, and the other option is an advertising company, what options are there left?

Does anyone know which algorithm they use for super resolution in the camera app? I know they're using RAISR [0] for zoom in the previous version, seems like they have a new method now with multi image super resolution.

I doubt it's anywhere near as good as a second camera with a different lens, so I don't understand why they won't include a second camera in the back like every other modern phone.

[0] https://arxiv.org/abs/1606.01299

Between the giant top bar and the "related articles" segment that opens on its own theres almost no readable vertical space left on this blog. What kind of amateur company designed this?

https://alisdair.mcdiarmid.org/kill-sticky-headers/ works well

> soft circles and curves evoke something natural & familiar

> the products we create become so natural in your life that you don't think about them as technology anymore

This is bad! People should think of their technology and the implications it has on their lives. Encouraging people to sleepwalk even further into 24/7 surveillance fails the "don't be evil" test in my opinion.

Call me a cynic but damn if this doesn't stuff doesn't sound creepy coming from a company whose business model is based on surveillance.

I see where you are coming from, but I think that is just fighting the inevitable. People & companies should consider the implications of technology, but that shouldn't prevent it from becoming a bigger part of our lives.

I thought some of the feature presentations were very strange. They focused way too much on "how not to do it" instead of the "here's how Pixel solves this". For example the wide angle lens got a video which was 90% "Here's a bad example and another one,..." and then a 3s example of how it works/looks with the wide angle and that was pretty much it.

Wow! This is a top notch phone

This is a very dramatic opinion, but its one I've been thinking about for a while.

What is Google's five year plan with their hardware ecosystem? The only thing I can come up with is "continue gathering data to build experiences which enable them to sell ads and continue to gather more data", which feels reductive and has almost nothing to do with hardware.

The Pixel has always, in a broader market sense, been a bit of a non-starter. Its a fine device, don't get me wrong, but they sold 3.7M in 2017 [1]. Compare that to ~220M iPhones [2] or ~30M Samsung devices [2]. Its not even close. No one looks at LG's phone business and thinks its healthy, but that's the magnitude of sales we're talking about.

And their disastrous attempts at "premium" ChromeOS hardware. The Pixelbook was the most hilariously horrible device Google has ever made (wait... maybe that should go to the Pixel C?). The Slate looks a lot better, but where's the value compared to the cheaper Surface Pro 6 or iPad Pro? ChromeOS is an amazing platform for your grandma, but that doesn't sell units. And how does ChromeOS further Google's broader ecosystem goals? I use G-Suite personally and I feel no draw to buy one of these things, and I should be their target market.

If they're trying to take back more control of the Android market, they're failing. So, they've got the web. The "open web" isn't even a strategic moat for them; its the minimum price for them to exist. And geeze, even then, Apple is destroying them by forcing Safari on iOS.

This is way out in left field, but I think what Google needs to do is work on a WebASM-native processor architecture and design. Fuchsia and Flutter isn't enough alone, because they're still going to rely on companies like Samsung or Huawei to distribute the hardware, which is tenuous; these companies might see Fuchsia as an opportunity to take even more control of Android.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/13/17007104/google-pixel-tot...

[2] https://bgr.com/2017/12/29/iphone-vs-samsung-most-popular-te...

Right now Google is learning to make and sell end user devices. Distribution, manufacturing, etc, are no trivial matters and Google isn't a hardware company like Apple.

I think today the endgame for these devices is pure marketing. The Slate in particular is intended to bring some cool factor into the ChromeOS world which is seriously lacking.

Longer term, I'd say Google is preparing to become a major hardware manufacturer and maybe give a shot at beating Apple at its own game. We know Google is making its own universal OS, we know Google is keeping its hardware business relatively small. I think Google is preparing for the second coming of Fuchsia.

I think Google is trying to go after the premium segment and try to achieve Apple-like margins by focusing on software. If you look at the the phone specs you'll be completely unimpressed with the Pixel phones. Plenty of cheaper phones have better specs. This is why the Android phone market is so brutal: most OEMs are undifferentiated and are being squeezed because consumers largely see them as interchangeable. Google is the exception to this. So I don't think evaluating them purely on volume is a correct way to assess the health of their business.

Mobile tech has jumped the shark I think. Literally just a snorefest of a year to me when it comes to new devices.

It's hard to come to terms with the sheer lack of imagination and variety in the smartphone market. A few examples:

1. It's now all but impossible to find a phone with flagship specifications in anything smaller than a 5" form factor. You would think some company somewhere would be trying to capture the market for smaller phones but no. Sony has done this for a while but hasn't released a compact version of their latest offering.

2. In the space of less than a year the questionable design choice of adding a notch to the top of the screen has become ubiquitous. This follows a larger trend of just about every phone maker trying to make their product look as much like an iPhone as possible rather than trying to create a distinct aesthetic.

3. Headphone jacks have mostly disappeared for little discernible reason despite the overwhelming consumer preference for them. Why aren't there any smartphone manufacturers trying to differentiate by keeping the jack?

The list goes on. It boggles the mind how a market that has existed for like 10 years became so homogeneous and creatively bankrupt.

Why does nearly everything that Google makes look like it was designed by an engineer? They have top-notch engineering talent, but seem completely clueless when it comes to designing slick and beautiful experiences. There's a very thin line between cool and cringy.

Well, this was anticlimactic. Instead of a bezel-free pixelbook, we got a pointless notch-full phone.

Consider how bad Pixel's quality control is, I won't buy a Pixel 3 at least in a year.

For those who are dissapointed in Pixel's notch - look out for OnePlus 6T. Much more better "waterdrop" implementation which minimizes notch area. There is a rumour they're partnering with T-Mobile for this release

Save your money and buy a Pocophone F1 for $300

https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=9256&idPhone2...

Missing some T-Mobile LTE Bands. (edit, the linked website had the incorrect lte band information)

No IP68 so I have to worry about spills and rain again.

MicroSD and 3.5mm holes to fill with dust/water.

It looks good, but not quite what I want.

Happy I didn't pull the trigger on the Lenovo Smart Display. Home Hub looks pretty nice and although the screen is smaller than both of the Lenovo models, I think the price difference makes up for it.

"AI in Pixel 3 enables new features that make your day-to-day actions simpler and easier."

I wonder if they'll go so far as to make it recognize my Italian wife's name when I pronounce it in Italian.

Where's the best place to get a new/refurb Pixel 1 cheap? It's the last Google phone I'd want to own, and I'm guessing the price will drop even further now that the 3 is out.

swappa. pixel 2 may be a better idea if you are ok with the headphone jack situation.

So the phone costs $1000 plus another $129 for AppleCare?

Bring back the Nexus line :(

AppleCare for a google device?

The new Pixel 3 is $799.

No headphone jack. Barf.

Live stream here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsoQGTA1SxY

£189 for a keyboard case!!

Tell 'em they're dreamin'.

When it comes to the Pixel Slate, it will be interesting to see how long it takes Joshua Stein to get OpenBSD running on it.

Here's my generic cynical HN comment:

Every Google feature is predicated on large scale user data collection. Who asked for a phone that would answer itself or cloud storage for pictures that also processes and trains models on all of them? These features are something Google wants, not consumers. When drones are able to target individuals based on facial profiles, I'm going to think "my selfies helped with that".

At least it has front facing speakers.

maybe you don't want those features but a lot of us do. cloud storage of photos has been great and I'd love to stop paying for the additional storage space. yes, Google may benefit from it also but that is why it is free...

Speak for yourself. I adore these features.

Why are they leving out andriod on pixel slate and moving to chromeOS? so the future phones will be on chromeOS?

I hope the Pixel 3 has a PWM free/high frequency PWM OLED display but I'm not holding my breath :(

Has Google fixed the Bluetooth disconnecting bug in ChromeOS yet? If so I'm tempted...

Hey there's been a bunch of bluetooth improvements in recent builds. What's your bug again ?

I was looking for a 8Gb Ram and a SD card slot for pretty much infinite storage... Oh well.

I was choosing a new Android phone last week. Step 1: sort by headphone jack.

Thank you google for not releasing any interesting product and wasting my money.

Does the Pixel 3 support Wifi Aware (Neighbor Awareness Networking (NAN))?

> "Take a groupie"

I don't think that means what they think it means.

Bummed that there's no new version of Google WiFi.

4 word summary: great but too expensive

A notch!? Why!

Google's "unlimited" photo and video storage sounds like a fantastic idea! Until you realize that, as with all of Google's products, the "unlimited" storage has to be paid for somehow.

In Google's case, this is done by giving Google a license to use YOUR photos as they see fit (https://policies.google.com/terms?hl=en&gl=ZZ#toc-content):

> When you upload, submit, store, send or receive content to or through our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content. The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones. This license continues even if you stop using our Services (for example, for a business listing you have added to Google Maps). Some Services may offer you ways to access and remove content that has been provided to that Service. Also, in some of our Services, there are terms or settings that narrow the scope of our use of the content submitted in those Services. Make sure you have the necessary rights to grant us this license for any content that you submit to our Services.

Google's entire business is "operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and developing new ones", so it suffices to say that their usage is not so "limited". As far as I can tell, there are no terms for Google Photos that narrow the scope.

Apple's iCloud service is very different in this regard (https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/term...):

> You acknowledge and agree that Apple may, without liability to you, access, use, preserve and/or disclose your Account information and Content to law enforcement authorities, government officials, and/or a third party, as Apple believes is reasonably necessary or appropriate, if legally required to do so or if Apple has a good faith belief that such access, use, disclosure, or preservation is reasonably necessary to: (a) comply with legal process or request; (b) enforce this Agreement, including investigation of any potential violation thereof; (c) detect, prevent or otherwise address security, fraud or technical issues; or (d) protect the rights, property or safety of Apple, its users, a third party, or the public as required or permitted by law.

> Except for material we may license to you, Apple does not claim ownership of the materials and/or Content you submit or make available on the Service. However, by submitting or posting such Content on areas of the Service that are accessible by the public or other users with whom you consent to share such Content, you grant Apple a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Service solely for the purpose for which such Content was submitted or made available, without any compensation or obligation to you.

The first paragraph is Apple saying that they can show the FBI your iCloud account, which is already a known quantity with almost all cloud storage providers (except E2E encrypted ones). The second says that Apple only uses your content if you choose to share it with people, and then, only for the purpose of sharing.

Maybe you don't care that Google has this kind of access to all your photos and videos - after all, it already does that with your GMail - but for a lot of people (myself included) this is a dealbreaker.

Most boring and useless set of products with ugly design.

Though most impressive was the dim light photo on the Pixel 3 compared to the latest from Apple.

Hope the Pixel 2 gets the call screening and the dim light photo abilities.

Amazing to see privacy not mentioned at all.

I didn't watch the whole live stream so I cannot tell whether they have mentioned about privacy specifically or not. From what I saw from the phone spec, there is a new chip called "Titan M" built custom for the Pixel 3.

"Embedded in the Pixel 3 phones is a new security chip named Titan M. Google designed, manufactured, and integrated the chip into the phone's secure boot process. It's used to protect the lock screen passcode authentication process and to strengthen disk encryption. This same security chip is used in Google's data centers, the company says, which means the Pixel phones are getting enterprise-level security."

this is the quote related to the chip from Wired.

https://www.wired.com/story/google-pixel-3/

They mentioned Titan security a few times.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Microsoft's Surface design led to the iPad Pro and Google Slate.

Hey Google,Facebook etc... You've had data breaches and you don't really seem to care about user info and privacy, what's your response? Facebook & Google: "Introducing these new gadgets to use in your home, where we can get access to everything you do or look up during the day"

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