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Just to run the numbers for everyone, this is $31,200 assuming no vacation all year. So making less money gross as a waiter than you're able to put into a savings account (after taxes and all expenses) as a software developer. I don't think that will be surprising information for anyone here.

I've waited tables before and I'd rather be a software developer for half the median software developer salary than a waiter for 3x the median waiter salary.

Some points in response to this:

I keep nearly all of my gross because of the standard deduction and the nature of cash tips.

My rent is $650 a month whereas most people in the bay or in Boston are paying $2200 for equivalent quality.

I dont spend 2 hours stuck in traffic or a hot subway every day-- most days I ride my moped which gets 90mpg and uses a hilariously cheap blend of oil and fuel from the hardware store.

And, what is most important to me, and this is subjective, is that I actually feel stable and welcome at this employer. I was laid off from the job where I was making 110k gross and banking 30k.

So, why not take a job where I'm grossing in the 30s and banking 15k?

Because you could be making $100k and banking $50k. Every hour you work is an hour you'll never get back.

But, as you said, you feel welcomed by your employer and feel the job is stable. If this is what you prioritize, that's your decision.

>Because you could be making $100k and banking $50k.

But is it really worth it if you have to live in an area you don't want to live, spend time commuting that you'd rather work on something else, etc. that could potentially affect one's stress/anxiety and even cause health issues? I'm aware that there are people with jobs making 6+ figures that are also very happy with their jobs, but I also don't think it's fair to frame his situation as a negative simply because he could be making more.

> But is it really worth it if you have to live in an area you don't want to live, spend time commuting that you'd rather work on something else, etc. that could potentially affect one's stress/anxiety and even cause health issues?

Of course not. I'd encourage a passive job search of remote roles. One should always be looking for their next job. One should always be padding their emergency fund, so they have 6-12 months of reserves. The better your financial position, the more power you have over your own destiny.

I think the point is that to frame it as either feeling shitty at a high-paying job or feeling good at a low-paying job is a false dichotomy.

>I keep nearly all of my gross because of the standard deduction and the nature of cash tips.

Instead of the "nature of cash tips", it would be more accurate to state "the nature of people to evade taxes (or do other bad things as defined by society) when chances of being caught are sufficiently low".

Also why I always use credit card and tip with credit card.

Always amazing that the people outraged over tax fraud from someone making $100k. a year have no problem with tax fraud from someone making $30k. They're the same thing. If you get $N in tips and declare <$N in tips, you're committing tax fraud. Normalized, sure, but not any less illegal.

And for what it's worth I don't think tipping on the card changes anything. When I waited tables we never got any report or anything from the credit card sales.

The law, in its majestic equality, may consider them both equally objectionable.

My morality, which is what informs my outrage (or lack thereof), does not.

Minimum wage laws for tipped employees (in the US) is also why I always tip with cash.

Obviously this varies widely based on the restaurant, but I worked at a small diner in the middle of nowhere ca 2006-2008 and averaged about $13-14/hr after tips.

The person stocking shelves at your local grocery store is in a much worse financial position than just about any waiter, despite the ~$3 minimum wage.

Minimum wage laws state that the employer needs to compensate the employee if their tips are not sufficient to meet minimum wage.

It's not my job as a consumer to ensure this happens. The only reason to tip in the first place is because servers' have a lower minimum wage. As a voter, I would support a politician who would get rid of this reduced minimum wage and make it so people weren't guilted into compensating people. It should always be an employer's job to calculate appropriate prices for products in order meet their payroll.

I'd like to see stats on how often they actually do pay them more if the tips aren't enough. They'd have to report them, among other things. The whole pay them less cause tips are going to make it up and be better has always struck me as a stupid system, too easily abused. We should just pay them the wage they should get, and get rid of tips.

They probably don’t, more often than not. But me paying tips in cash so the server can evade taxes isn’t going to help solve the root problem, and in fact, only makes it worse.

15k is not nearly all of 31k, sure you're saving 50% instead of 30% due to the cost of living but you're still only saving half as much in real dollars which is going to have a huge impact on retirement. I get where you're coming from as far as the differences in cost and commute, but the fact that you're committing tax fraud by not declaring all of your tips doesn't necessarily make it a good long-term financial decision.

> So making less money gross as a waiter than you're able to put into a savings account (after taxes and all expenses) as a software developer.

The OP worked in sales

Life is what you make of it. If he feels happy doing job X at 31200, then so be it. No need to look down on it. In fact be happy for him, there's already too much suffering in the world, so someone finding something they enjoy is a blessing.

Also he was in software SALES not dev, so not an accurate comparison.

I agree with your advice (no need to look down, etc). OP however came off as condescending (at least to me) when he said stuff like "breathe fresh air", "stuck in subway for 2 hours", etc in responses, making everything a zero sum game.

The way I see it, he moved to wherever because his girlfriend forced him to, and then lucked into find a good job that they enjoy.

>OP however came off as condescending (at least to me) when he said stuff like "breathe fresh air", "stuck in subway for 2 hours", etc in responses, making everything a zero sum game.

I don't think he was being condescending. I'm at a point where I would absolutely value fresh air, not having to commute more than 15-30 minutes a day, being able to live in a rural area where I can have privacy and space, and other benefits like that far more than the financial benefits. When I started my career I wanted to move up the ladder as quickly as possible so I can earn as much as possible, but I've realized that I really don't care about the money nearly as much as I thought. I don't make a ton, but I already earn more than I spend and am able to splurge on things frequently. If I had to opportunity to move somewhere like that with my girlfriend I absolutely would

I think the point was you can get all of that and still make money at it. I live on the edge of a mid-size metro (Portland, Oregon) making north of 140K with excellent work-life balance, while living next to farmland in a little quiet neighborhood with a nice big yard, the school my kids go to is a hundred yards away, etc. So I don't see why you'd need to give up the job you enjoy just to get the things OP wants. You may need to live somewhere other than NYC or the bay area, but there are lots of places in the country where you can achieve these goals without having to live especially frugally. I don't care all that much about the money at this point but being able to sock away a bunch makes it less stressful to contemplate the future, college educations coming up in the future, etc.

Well, this thread is about working remotely. Why not go remote and live where you want? I get to enjoy rural living, thriving farmers markets, clean ocean and air, relaxed social environment - all from my home in Hawai'i.

I think it may have just been you taking it as condescending. Personally I'm jealous. That sounds great, San Diego isn't known for clean air or short commutes.

I didn't think anything in my comment was condescending or "looking down" on the profession or him. Just stating that this is an astronomical difference in earnings potential and savings rate. And is $110k as a software sales rep and $110k as a software developer any different really? The important part is going from banking $35k in savings to earning $31k or less.

The fact that you're in Eastern Long Island along with talking about the $400 weekend makes me think you're near the Hamptons. What are you going to do once the summer crowd winds down and it's only the locals frequenting your restaurant?

Not the Hamptons :) I would probably be doing $1000 weekends if I was on Dune Rd lol!

The town specifically is Head of the Harbor. We've got a year round retiree crowd that comes out even on Mondays and Wednesdays to hear an 85 year old woman sing Sinatra ahha

Good for you, Cant put a price on reduced stress and happiness. I quit a developer job because of the massive stress and travel involved and took a 50% pay cut. I left software completely for 4 years. I was much happier.

I am back in software now making 50% more than the prior software job I quit but I work from home and enjoy the industry. Sometimes a break for a few years is just what the doctor ordered.

There are so many places that pay well but are pleasant to work at. Especially in software development. If someone is unhappy they should pick up and leave, the market is good and the choices plentiful right now.

absolutely, market is great right now, plenty of well paying choices out there.

Can I suggest that experience is a bit atypical? Eastern Long Island is rural, but it is also very very much old money.

It's definitely old money, yes. I don't think someone could replicate this in Kansas at the Cracker Barrel