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Comment by polythrowaway | Hacker News Reader

I was a team leader at a USSOCOM unit and had to take a poly to be read into a couple of three-letter agency programs. In the middle of the test, the smug 23 year old fresh college grad administering the thing tells me I'm being deceptive and obviously support jihadi terrorism. This as I'm getting ready to leave on my 12th deployment. I've never wanted to so violently break someone's face as right then in that moment.

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When administering the test some examiners will tell the subject they failed just to see the reaction or if they will admit to something. All though, it would be a poor choice to do this to someone who had taken multiple screening polys.

Sounds like they are doing their job. Their job is to fuck with you. Just stay calm, relaxed, and board. It’s all a bunch of BS.

> This as I'm getting ready to leave on my 12th deployment

Unfortunately, people with far better credentials have been traitors and spies. Kim Philby, Aldrich Ames, and Robert Hanssen come to mind. IIRC, at least one was even given a pass on his polygraph test because of his credentials. Recently, Michael Flynn was a Lt General, head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, and National Security Advisor (to be clear, he is convicted only of lying to the FBI, AFAIK).

EDIT: Added to Flynn's credentials

Yeah, and they were all caught during their polygraph interrogations right?

As I said, I believe Ames or Hanssen was, but the subject was given a pass because of his credentials.

Hanssen never took a polygraph; Ames took many and passed them all. If there's even a single spy who was caught because of the polygraph, neither the US nor any other government using them has said so.

The incredulity lays here:

> tells me I'm being deceptive and obviously support jihadi terrorism. This as I'm getting ready to leave on my 12th deployment.

Funny you should mention Aldrich Ames. The New York Times reported that:

> Three years later, at the start of his career as a Russian mole, Aldrich Ames passed a Central Intelligence Agency lie detector test. In 1991, he passed another, even though he was on the agency's list of suspected moles and living at a level far above his $70,000 Government salary. Last summer, Dennis DeConcini, then chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, visited Mr. Ames in jail and asked how he passed the exams. "Well," Mr. Ames replied, "they don't work."

https://www.nytimes.com/1995/02/19/opinion/lie-detectors-lie...

He also wrote a very interesting letter about polygraph testing:

https://fas.org/sgp/othergov/polygraph/ames.html

Interesting, thanks.

Why was Ames given a pass on the other signs of risk? Because of his credentials?

It's been a few years since I've read a book on Ames, but as far as I recall he had some plausible deniability - he claimed the money came from his father in law.

But if I recall correctly, he was also surprised it took so long.

I hate it when people do this. What's the better comeback/reaction to this frame? (apparently, my verbalized fuck-off, tamed or not, is not the best approach)

"I'm sorry, that's not true.", then wait for them to continue the test?

Yes, and the general recommendations I've seen are:

- I'm sorry, what did you say? I didn't hear that? ...

- Oh, I thought you said that. What made you say it? ...

- You know that people reserve the worst criticism for themselves? ...

Did my original question implied polygraph tests in any way?

"Wow, you're really bad at this!"

I don't know... It's aggressive in an explicit way. A putdown. I should have several comebacks ready and be prepared to nuke the relationship.

Snort

I'm picturing that scene from The Rock where Ed Harris chews out that young staffer who questions him.

If that statement was actually part of the test, that poor guy had a very dangerous job. "Might as well put the new guys in there, if they get killed we don't lose someone more valuable."

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