Amazon Camper Force | Hacker News Reader

Amazon Camper Force

amazondelivers.jobs

79 pointsbrownbat56 comments

This is how a lot of the world used to work (ok, minus the wi-fi, and the accomodation was even more basic). Unskilled laborers and anyone else out of a job would move around, taking jobs as and when they were needed and often living "on site" for a while. Much of the work was seasonal such as harvesting, although some places like dockyards and coal mines you could turn up and work by the day or week most of the year. No such thing as benefits if you fell ill, of course.

Here's an article about hops pickers in England [1] and the related Wikipedia article [2]. I also recommend Steinbeck's "The Grapes of Wrath".

[1] https://mashable.com/2017/06/03/hop-pickers [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopper_hut

Should we consider this, then, a regression?

Yes

One of the worlds most valuable companies just launched a way to keep its people seasonal and essentially homeless. whatever this is, its not progress.

Acknowledging the way the world works and trying to improve conditions without addressing the root cause is sometimes one of the best possible outcomes.

When a doctor helps you with the arm you broke because a car hit your bicycle, a doctor doesn't try to improve road conditions for cyclists.

That's a bad analogy. Doctors very much participate in trying to prevent injuries and chronic disease through educating and planning with patients, and lobbying government (ASCRS, AMA, etc).

This is how a lot of the modern world of undocumented immigrants currently works in the US. Our migrant agricultural workforce is much larger than you’d think.

I haven't heard of this program before so I did some digging. According to this source [1], Amazon Camper Force seeks to hire people who live in Campers (aka RVs) as item pickers for Amazon warehouses.

"As part of the CamperForce program, Amazon hires workers on temporary contracts from early October until December 23, paying them near minimum wage while covering the expenses of staying in an RV park.

The company targets older workers, who they believe have a stronger work ethic than their younger counterparts."

The program has been around since 2008. Apparently Amazon does not work them as hard as regular hires, as they only need to hit 70% output (in items per hour) of year-round employees.

[1] https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/11/06/camp-n06.html

Drove past a parking lot full of RVs next to the Amazon facility in Campbellsville Kentucky. Quite startling to see.

Did they have hookups? Water/electricity.

Yes, the sites are full hookup.

Strange new forms of company towns.

Seems better if you don't want people planting roots, building infrastructure, and getting a local government/police/fire force in place. Amazon can shut the place down and won't have tons of people trapped in a dying town.

Unless of course there is crime, or a fire.

That said, I believe geographic mobility is important and probably one of the things that makes things most challenging as an adult.

I worked at that facility up until last year. It's one of the oldest Amazon buildings around.

Half my family is from right there. Amazon and Walmart. The modern day fruit of the loom factory.

"near minimum wage" just became $15/hr. Sounds like a solid deal.

I think that's for full time employees?

The OP has pay listed per-site and they're all under $15/hr.

If you read the page, you’d see that your ‘near minimum wage’ is actually 50-90% above it - higher if you account for the completion bonuses. Much higher if you account for the free campsite, WiFi, and hookups (worth many 100s/mo).

Health insurance after 90 days, for a program that runs from early October through late December. Returning campers welcome. I wonder if returning campers get to count last year's 90 days.

It kinda feels like Amazon is bragging about not paying health insurance, just like they list frugality as one of their company values, and are looking for a place with a low cost of living and tax breaks for HQ2.

There is a book out about this phenomenon. More info here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/02/nomadl...

So it seems Hobo'ing has finally made a comeback in the US. If this isn't a sign of the times, I'm not sure what is.

So true. I clicked on the link thinking that it had something to do with Amazon deliveries at campgrounds/RV parks for people on vacation, only to find out that my default level of cynicism is woefully inadequate.

It's been the case for a little while. /r/vandwellers has been getting busier and busier, with a lot of new builds. Once you've seen a couple of dozen different builds there, you start recognizing the vehicles on the road everywhere else.

It seems to be an aggregation of a few different communities. There are some people doing it because they can't afford anything else, but also a lot of people who just want a cheap way to travel for a while, people who are dumping tons of money into their builds so that they can join the Instagram community of outdoor photos from the back of your van, and folks who make okay money but want to spend as much time climbing as possible.

So it's probably a little bit related to rising housing costs, but that's not all of it.

I see them all around now, too.

The US is hitting new record highs in median income: https://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2018/08/july-2018...

Medians are a meaningless statistic in a country with such a massive gap between top and bottom earners.

The ratio of income bracket to income growth is literally a hockey stick graph: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/8/16112368/pi...

Median is better than mean though. Preferably, the people with the data would release median, mean, and quintiles or deciles, and the actual data itself for better analysis.

It's meaningful if you don't care about the top and bottom earners.

Not if there's no actual data points left in the middle.

Per person real income is even better:

https://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications/the-region/where...

The Silicon Valley version: https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/12/working-poor-finding-...

Kind of low on details, but I guess they're looking for warehouse workers that can drive somewhere, live in an RV for a few months, and then get another job?

I am not sure who can do that that is also willing to work 12 hours a day lifting boxes.

Folks who retired at 50 and want to earn a little extra cash occasionally? I doubt most Amazon packages are that heavy.

> I doubt most Amazon packages are that heavy.

Amazon warehouse jobs (and I suspect it's hardly unique to them) are pretty universally described as intensely physically demanding.

Physically demanding doesn't necessarily mean heavy. Moving at a rapid pace for extended periods is considered physically demanding.

If you're in regular shape at 50 or 60, this is tiring but absolutely doable for a few days or weeks. I'd even argue that it's healthy to physically push yourself.

But someone else noted that these temp workers aren't expected to hit the same output.

It says the minimum workday is 10 hours. Who would retire at 50 and want to spend 2 months intensely working 10 hours a day? You obviously had the work ethic and happened to find the right line of work to both afford an RV and retire at 50... why go back to what is the most entry level of entry level jobs to get a little extra cash? What would you use the cash for? $13/hour * 60 hours a week * 8 weeks = $6240 * 30% tax = $4368 for your entire duration (plus free utilities). I don't see how that's worth it. That's less than two weeks of an 8-hour-a-day job for pretty much any professional in New York City, and they get a 401k, insurance, etc.

I'm not sure I'll retire at 50, but I am sure I won't be working 60 hour weeks out of a van. Unless something changes dramatically, of course. You never know.

I think there are two types of folks. In one camp you have those that retire early because they are wealthy and buy an RV to travel. On the other hand there is a segment that is normal folks who are sick of the rat race or got laid off and have enough money to retire if they live extremely frugally and living in an RV is a way to save money and forgo the expense of a house.

I imagine this Amazon thing is attractive to the latter type of situation.

Hourly wages listed are $11-$13. Is the website just out of date?

My guess is that it's accurate, and that Amazon still considers it to fall within their promise of a $15 minimum wage, just like the federal government and some states allow restaurants to pay less than minimum wage to servers who get tips – only in AMZ's case instead of tips it's RV parking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage

Wifi and power extra, shit pump and water free for prime members.

They also list witholding a part of their wages until they've successfully completed the season.

I thought their wages were all supposed to be at $15/hr. I see several $11/12 listings on that page.

I'm not from the US, so I don't know about that "RV Culture". But if I'm cynical, it sounds like Amazon is looking for people who can't afford to say no (which is why they live in a camper van for starters...), which is unethical in my opinion.

If I'm being optimistic, they're engaging with a community, who actually loves the RV lifestyle, and wants opportunities like this for limited periods, so they can save up for their "next adventure". I just don't know how working 12 hour shifts while living in an RV is called an "adventure". But hey, that's marketing these days - everything should be (over)sold.

My gutfeeling tells me, that the first is more likely to be the case than the latter, which is just another bad mark in the book for Amazon...

Most the RV's and trailers you see at these shipping centers cost well into the $30k range. It not dudes living out of vans that's for sure.

I don't think it's a sinister as you are assuming it to be. They are engaging with people who are simply nomadic by decision, like gypsy/travelers in europe. Many of these people can afford to drift around if they work hard for those 3 months. Or they may go help with some farm harvests in the summer to make a little more.

> I'm not from the US, so I don't know about that "RV Culture". But if I'm cynical, it sounds like Amazon is looking for people who can't afford to say no.

Plenty of people outside the US, too, live in caravans for a considerable portion of the year. Go to southern Morocco or Western Sahara in the winter, and you will see many hundreds of camping cars owned by German, French, and Italian pensioners who want to spend the cold months in warm, sunny weather. If there actually were seasonal work down there, I would totally expect some portion of them to take it, since some people do feel the need to make some extra money or to do something "productive" during the day.

The people doing it mostly feel it's a good deal for them. They get a free place to set up, with full hook-ups (water/sewer/power) that would normally cost $300-500 a month at a RV park. And they're earning enough that they can go on the road for the rest of the year with money in the bank.

Some full-time RV owners publish their costs. The Russos spent about $3000 a month in fixed + variable costs when in their Class-A, but only $1200 a month when they traded it for a Class-B (RAM Pro-Master van). They seldom stay at a campground.

https://weretherussos.com/rv-living-costs-full-time-class-a-...

https://weretherussos.com/camper-van-life-costs-september-20...

When we were sailing there were times where we were hunkered down at a marina or anchorage. Most of our neighbors were white hairs and they enjoyed the independence. These boats were kitted out to go months between provisionings.

Anyway, jobs like these seem dystopian, but unless your career was already highly mobile it’s very hard to make a consisten income and be a nomad. Corporate remote jobs are extremely rare and the few that exist are being pushed towards expensive city coworking spaces.

Not just packers. Airport/airline employees also can live in RVs nearby.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106970...

It seems like in both cases, they profile divorced old men who have economic woes as a result.

Strikes me as a little bit dystopian frankly.

Me too. My first thought was that the title used on HN was some kind of joke, but nope, there really is a staffing initiative called “Amazon Camper Force” at Amazon.

Having a semi-itinerate workforce seems like an extremely effective way to avoid any risk of labor activities.

I don't believe these temp workers qualify for the $15 per hour wages. It's interesting how the Amazon web page puts such a "cheerful spin" on this slumlording . . . "They also list witholding a part of their wages until they've successfully completed the season"

Whoa, this has Snow Crash all over it. What's next, some Gillionaire is gonna tie a few ships together out in the plastic gyre?

I mean, doesn't the dystopian nature of having a mobile workforce like this, you know .. with their entire lifestyle hinged on the warehouse-de-jeur ethos .. isn't this just really not kind of creepy?

Maybe its me, but I'm seeing this as the sprawl, sporing.

Warehouse-du-jour, and from the looks of it, it seems that laborers are willing to accept these conditions, which sound pretty average to me.

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