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Comment by s0l1dsnak3123 | Hacker News Reader

I really enjoyed this article. Scots is certainly a language of its own - to hear it in the wild you must venture out of the more populous areas (Inverness and Aberdeen are exceptions) of Scotland and into the highlands and rural areas. It is also used much more by older, poorer or more isolated demographics within Scotland: as a farmers' son, I met many Scots-speaking people when I went to the market with my father.

People who claim Scots is "just an accent" don't know what they're talking about.

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I'd say it's a dialect, not a language. It's more than an accent for sure, for starters scotland has a load of different accents not just one, as I'm sure many teuchters going to Glasgow have found out the hard way.

But I find it difficult to get to the idea that people "speak scots" in rural areas.

I've lived and worked in Scotland my entire life and in 40+ years, not once has someone start speaking in a language I didn't get in general conversation... not once, and I would not regard myself as multi-lingual.

There's local terms that are used for sure, "you ken"

But that's not a language, that's a variety of local dialects.

I expect they’re code switching to match your expected communication preferences based on the normal class/environmental signals.

I do hope you're joking/trolling at this point.

No they're not.

I've worked in factories in Cumbernauld, I've worked in universities in St Andrews, I've worked in banks in Edinburgh, I've worked in accountancy offices in Glasgow, I've worked in hospitals in Dumfries.

I've visited pretty much every part of the country, and no-one has ever "code switched to match my expected communications preference"

This idea that Scottish people are some generic blob who speak "Scots" just isn't true to the real diversity of the country.

Aberdonians, Glaswegians, Edinbuggers, residents of the Kingdom of Fife, Teuchters and all the rest have different accents and different dialects but they don't speak different languages.

The workplaces you listed aren't a very diverse set though.

If you feel that, I'd suggest you've not been to many factories in Cumbernauld :P

Aye!

Yeah Cumbernauld though..

"What's it called?"

> "Edinbuggers" typo?

Absolutely not :)

Edinbuggers is a term for people from Edinburgh, usually used by Weegies (people from Glasgow), e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Weegies-Edinbuggers-Edinburgh-Sligh...

So _that's_ where the train goes.

Fifers.

> "Aberdonians, Glaswegians, Edinburghers, residents of the Kingdom of Fife, Teuchters and all the rest have different accents and different dialects but they don't speak different languages."

Spend some time in places like the Shetlands Islands or the Orkney Islands and the dialect vs language distinction is much more debateable, given the number of distinct words borrowed from the Norn language.

Aye I've spent many holidays in Shetland and what's spoken there has more chance of being a distinct language that most areas of Scotland, but they have a different heritage again, with a large norwegian influence.

My maternal grandparents retired to rural Aberdeenshire, they were both born in Aberdeen itself. I don't remember any of the local farmers speaking in a way that I couldn't understand so my vote is for dialect too.

There's an affectation in addition to the "Scottish Cringe" you're quite clearly spraying all over this discussion thread..."Proud Scot....but..."

Not at all, I'm attempting to reflect the reality of life in Scotland as in my lived experience, as opposed to academic notions of language and identity.

There's no "but" at the end of my being a proud Scot. There is a debate about the validity of Scots as a unified language that's used in day to day life, and some romantic notions that we speak in some other language when "foreigners" aren't around.

The reality of Scotland is that in my opinion we're a diverse set of regions, not some unified mass that speaks a distinct language, that's not a lack of pride speaking that's a pride in exactly that diversity (also I don't want to be put in the same bucket as edinbuggers :)

Assuming from your profile that you're scottish, would You say that Edinburgh people spoke the same dialect as people from Glasgow. Would you say that we speak a different language to people in Carlisle or Newcastle?

Mate, I apologise for my comment. I don't have the time right now to have a proper blether about this, just had food and a bottle of wine and I'm a bit knackered. Will maybe catch up with this tomorrow?

Fair play, it is getting late :)

> People who claim Scots is "just an accent" don't know what they're talking about.

Such definitions are largely political. "A language is a dialect with an army and navy"

Actually "with poets", no?

Not so much of the highlands speak Scots. Here is a map [1]. Indeed, the Wikipedia article states it is sometimes called "Lowland Scots".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ScotsLanguageMap.png

People in Aberdeen might well get upset if you collapsed Doric into just being Scots.

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