The iPhone XS and XS Max Review: Unveiling the Silicon Secrets
anandtech.com
anandtech.com
- A12 has 8MB on chip “SoC cache”
- Big core L1$ = 128kB; Little Core L1$ = 32kB
- For the big core, L2$ is a whopping 128 instances 6MB per core/thread, 8MB at 64KB/inst.
- Little core L2$ is 32 instances, 1.5MB per core/thread, 2MB at 64KB/inst
- A12 GPU uses memory compression!
- A12 Big has 2.38 GHz base clock and 2.5 GHz 1 core boost
- A12 Little has 1.538 GHz all core, and 1.562 GHz 2 or 3 core boost, and 1.587Ghz 1 core boost
- A11 and A12 have a 7-wide decode (up from 6 on the A10) and 6Int ALU (up from 4 on the A10)
- Apple’s microarchitecture seems to far surpass anything else in terms of width, including desktop CPUs
- SPECint/fp Numbers show that it’s got 2x the speed of and any all other mobile SoC’s. 3x perf/watt if you normalize speed / power consumption.
- SPECint/fp numbers also show that the A12 is faster than a skylake server cpu (in core-for-core IPC). Not a perfect comparison, but far better than Geekbench
So basically Apple's A11 has already reached Skylake like IPC since last year.
Which makes me wonder why Apple is still paying Intel substantial amount of premium for x86 on Mac? There is at least $100 BOM cost saving, translate to $200 in RSP. In an ideal world, iPad would have had 8 years of iteration and eating away PC market shares. It seems the vision of iPad died along with Steve Jobs 7 years ago today.
Steve, we miss you.
Of course Apple's only publicly interested AR stuff with their phone-based ARKit, but media and gaming are huge markets for them. I don't think an Apple VR headset is out of the question, and it would 100% be an untethered device like the Quest is.
I always thought android were further ahead in a lot of departments (especially hardware). Mainly because there is a new android phone almost weekly, which sometimes uses new technology that the iPhone did not have available to them at the time.
Though I would agree on the quality of apps.
In the way that every iPhone has been an iteration on previous models, but here we are. The main feature this year is photographic quality is difficult lighting conditions, particularly low light and with harsh backlighting. Some of the side by sides with pictures taken with last years model are pretty impressive.
In terms of hardware, it used to be that Android manufacturers could get a new component into a phone maybe 6 months before Apple, but nowadays Apple is developing custom hardware features Android manufacturers have now way to replicate. Things like in house developed health sensors, neural engine CPU co-processors for the image enhancements I mentioned above. The 3D face scanning tech in Face ID.
These aren’t things that can be knocked together in 6 months, it takes years, so we’ve gone from occasionally Apple missing a feature for 6 months and sometimes stealing a 6 months March, to its competitors now being several years behind, if they even have a path to effectively competing at all.
But as ever, it just depends what features matter to you and at what price point.
The processor is one of the only thing Apple has a clear lead in over Android flagships. (Others being customer support and longevity)
Android hardware and software are fully stable now. Android phones have better cameras and match apple in most other hardware metrics (display, speakers, antennas, build, touch response)
Software wise, it comes down to preferences. Both have a few things they do well, and others they stumble on. iOS12 is from what I have heard, smoother as butter. However, top flagships from Samsung, Google, OnePlus all run Android without any stutter at stable 60fps too.
All of my daily apps/usecases are at parity with their iOS. I don't know if the app ecosystem complaints are valid in 2018. (Apart from snap chat, because they have some wierd hate for Android)
I can respect your choice of wanting an Apple device. Especially if you are invested in their hardware and software ecosystem. But to someone who isn't, the iPhone does offer enough to switch from Android.
This is true. The problem is that the FPS don't matter so much as latency touch-to-update does. And Apple keeps this latency about 1/2 of what Android can do.
Even the $320 Pocophone F1 can perform at and above the iPhone XS Max performance in everyday tasks [1].
I’d be interested to see if there are more recent tests.
Here’s Dan Luu’s tests on scrolling latency: https://danluu.com/input-lag/
I was actually quite shocked at just how impressed I was on iOS 10 after Android phones that had cost me twice as much and many decades learning every UI and UX experience will disappoint.
This is the first time I've heard this.
Most of the time it is complaints about Android being laggy.
https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23939
> In addition to the models listed above, you can stream Netflix in HD on devices powered by the following chipsets. Check with the manufacturer of your device to confirm hardware specifications:
[...]
Qualcomm Snapdragon 845
https://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_pocophone_f1-9293.php
> Chipset Qualcomm SDM845 Snapdragon 845 (10 nm)
https://m.gsmarena.com/the_pocophone_f1_cant_stream_hd_video...
The annoyances come when the responsiveness is below the standard for either device (eg, 1/4second to 1/2 second delays). I see some of those on both devices, tbh.
This is the only thing I do not give a shit about. A much slower CPU would be just fine. The true advantage is the UX. Just try to disable automatic grammar correction on both iOS and Android and count the number of items you had to go through. It is insane how much crap Android has for every single thing. Designed by engineers for engineers mentality is the root cause here. Apple puts the user in charge how an mobile OS should look like or should behave and this is the biggest differentiating factor between iOS vs other platforms.
/s
At other companies you get jobs. At Apple, Jobs gets you!
Brilliant!
So it's pretty easy.
I know ios can do this with content blockers, but they only work in safari and are too easy to circumvent.
The user in charge? Interesting. I have both an iPhone and an Android handset. It has been this way for years (work is the reason). I believe I will never be able to fully accept the iPhone.
It seems like it wants to make a lot of (often stupid) decisions for me. When I want to connect my phone via cable to transfer some files it is always a hassle. I can't sideload apps that somehow goes against Apple's will. As an example, NewPipe is a blessing on Android if you enjoy YouTube (not available via Google Play). The fact that full phone backups are done via an video/audio player (iTunes) makes zero sense.
I feel trapped and irritated when I use the iPhone. When I use the Android phone I feel like the OS trusts me to make my own decisions.
I should perhaps mention that I chose to run Android without a Google account or Gapps. I've gone from Cyanogen via Copperhead to Lineage. Ironically, Android without Google is the best phone experience I've ever had.
Titanium Backup on Android allows for pretty much seamless updates across ROMs (if you know what you're doing). Try doing the same on iOS... oh, sorry. There's no choice in OS vendors there.
That is the key difference. What if I don’t want to be the sysadmin for my phone? What if I don’t want to root my phone? What if I prefer things to just work out of box?
https://youtu.be/0eEG5LVXdKo (start at 2:37)
Do they? Is there a one touch full device backup solution for Android that doesn’t involve rooting the phone or flashing custom ROM? Is there a way to easily sync my sessages to other devices[1]?
The two billion people do no flash custom ROMs or root their devices. They do not even get sucurity patches on time. But they try to use their device just the way one would use an iPhone — with almost zero customisation. So they end up with a phone which doesn’t do everything it should straight out of the box and is vulnerable for most of its lifetime, for the sake of choices/cusomizability they would never use.
I you are talking about the choice of OEMs, I agree. It is not ideal that Apple is the only iOS vendor[2]. But the benefits, IMO, outweigh the problems.
[1] Messages for web is a recent advancement.
[2] While we are on the subject of multiple OEMs, I’d prefer if OEMs followed the Windows model where they can install a few apps and tweak things a bit, but can’t (do not?) make drastic changes to the OS. I’d prefer to live in a world where I don’t have to worry about whether the Android Phone I am looking at is more vulnerable than the others.
As always, replace "cloud" with "someone else's computer" to see why I don't consider this an option.
This is what bothers me too. On an iOS device, you have to do everything in an app, and if the app doesn't support what you want to do, it's just not possible. Want to take an mp3 file from the web and play it with iTunes. Not easy. Got some audio books that you want to load in and play in your podcast player? Not easy. Everything has to go through each app, and there's no way to move data from one app to another, unless the apps have specifically setup that hand-off.
iOS now has what's essentially a file-picker since iOS 11, to support storage of files on your device and iCloud.
High-end android phones. But the run of the mill android phones that most people I know have... not so much.
One more plus for Apple: in-person support is fantastic. My battery was going, so I made an appointment at the local store. They noticed my screen had a tiny crack at the lower left corner, so while they did the battery, they replaced the screen.
Cost: $0. For sure I bought this phone 2+ years ago...
I'm guessing that you met a really nice Genius, because I'd imagine that screen cracks come under accidental damage and usually don't get covered under warranty.
I wanted to get my 6S's battery replaced under Apple's 2018 battery replacement program, but it has a cracked screen and Apple won't service the battery unless I replace the screen too.
He said oh, that might make it difficult, because the SE’s battery is accessed via the screen being suction-pulled off. He went out back to check.
When he came back, he said they’d replace the screen as well. I’d like to think this is one of those textbook “honesty pays” situations, but who knows.
An iPhone is usually a well balanced phone. It may not have the best of anything, but is usually right there at the top. And if you want a great camera so badly that you are willing to compromise on everything else, by all means, buy a dedicated digital camera. Similarly, if you want your phone to be so good at playing music that you are fine with the other compromises, you might want to look into a dedicated music player. Smartphones are meant to to generally purpose jack-of-all-trades sort of devices and the iPhone excels at that. If I want a device specialised for a purpose, I’ll buy the just that — not a smartphone.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/19/17878018/iphone-xs-x-pixe...
All tests shows different white balance between pixel and xs. This is highly depends on screens that are used on the phones and photos on iPhone can simply adjusted to iPhone screens.
That leaves:
(1)AGPS (which I'm not informed on, I've never thought of turning it off)
(2)real Firefox (aka alternative rendering engine that you can set as the system default)
(Develop for your own phone without rebuilding or paying isn't a security thing, just a convenience thing)
vs. Google mining your data at every opportunity and Google/carriers dropping support for phones as soon as they can get away with it.
I'll take iOS.
It only blocks ads in webviews, unlike ad blockers on Android, which block ads and trackers in native apps as well.
> and Signal.
I specifically said you can't set it as your default, which makes it significantly less convenient and therefore much less useful.
> vs. Google mining your data at every opportunity
This happens when you use Google apps on iOS as well. There is no difference.
> Google/carriers dropping support for phones as soon as they can get away with it.
Buy a phone that gets support. When you buy a car, you don't judge all cars by the worst manufacturers. When you buy an Android phone, doing the same is equally nonsensical.
> I'll take iOS.
Whatever floats your boat. At least now you have enough information to make an informed decision.
Which phone provides the same level of support as Apple ?
So Pixel, and, uh, Pixel XL?
Now I‘m typing this on a iPhone 8 that I plan to use for at least the next four years.
What are you talking about with other apps? What would it mean to have Signal the default app? When I want to use Signal I open signal, there's no convenience factor. Signal shows up as an option on the share sheet and I could even delete messages.app from the share sheet if I didn't want to use it.
I guess I can theoretically grasp links that open in maps and wanting to be able to change that default. (though I don't care to, since I don't have to send my data to Google) Are there links somewhere that open in "the default messenger app"?
What are the other default apps that I'm not able to change on iOS?
Also what is this about AGPS data going to Apple? I've just seen an assertion by you, nothing else.
Summary:
1)I'll fully give you the WebKit, you care about that, I don't, but I agree it's a thing.
2) You care about Maps, I don't, and I'm not sure it is that much of an issue. I interact with maps 90+% of the time after opening the app so if I want to stop using Apple's Maps it is a minor inconvenience.
3) I don't understand your point on Signal
4)I think there are other "default apps" you are talking about that I don't know about.
5)What are you talking about with Apple collecting AGPS data?
added: 6)Isn't AOSP not really useable as a phone interface... that is the impression I've gotten. How else am I supposed to not "use Google apps on Android"?
https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/us-cell-carriers-se...
Of course you have to opt in for apps.
The default on iOS is to not send any telemetry data to Apple.
And Apple has used differential privacy across all of their features.
This is actually the default on Android. I showed a specific case of data acquisition that iOS does that you can't opt out of. On Android, that data acquisition is opt-in.
And who cares about AGPS. Your cellular provider who is the only one who has access to AGPS data can already track your location based on cell tower information.
And Apple on iOS.
> I'm not aware of any use of differential privacy on the Android platform.
Android itself doesn't need it. It collects less data than iOS. If you're talking about apps on Android that use differential privacy, there are plenty, and their implementation of differential privacy is better than Apple's. https://www.macobserver.com/analysis/google-apple-differenti...
AGPS means the phone downloads the GPS almanac, the dynamic dataset you need for using GPS, from the internet as opposed to watching the satellites for about 30 minutes to download it. That would be stupid and would not have any positive impact on your privacy.
Eventually I got the Google Nexus 5, an Android flagship. Its updates ceased about a year after I bought it.
I gave up and got an iPhone 6S. Still getting updates to this day, despite being a 3 year old device. The constant software updates and support that Apple offers is clearly superior to what is provided with Android - even when you buy the 'official' Google phone.
I am sure there is an Android phone out there which has got a better camera, another one that has got better speakers, yet another one with better display and yet another which had got a better build than iPhone. The thing that most people forget is that almost all Android phones have some USPs and in exchange they compromise a lot on something else. Why do you thing the entire Android ecosystem should be treated as a single entity against the iPhone? Show me an Android that does every single thing better (or on par) with iPhone.
My experience has been that iPhones are usually not the absolute best at pretty much anything, but they are usually right up there at the top. Maybe it doesn’t have the absolute best camera, but it certainly has one of the best, and so on. And let’s not even compare the longevity of devices.
And before someone talks about prices, Androids that compete in the same arena as the iPhone cost about the same.
Then there is the app ecosystem. Sure, you have all the big names available on Android. But there are lot of smaller developers with great apps which are missing from Android — simply because of the crappy ecosystem which takes a village to build and support apps for. There are no apps which come close to the likes of OmniFocus, Things etc. And while Google does come up with cutting edge tech like AR, a lot of it is not adopted immediately — if ever — by the third party developers who have to wait for the shiny new version of Android to gain some momentum — something that takes forever in Android land.
So no, it is not just the processor that the iPhone has a clear lead on — it’s the overall experience. I couldn’t care less about the specs as long as the experience is maintained.
Full disclaimer: I am someone who usually carries two phones. This means that given the lack of alternatives, I end up with an Android in addition to my iPhone. And while I like some of the features offered by the individual Android OEMs, I do not consider the ecosystem as a whole to be anywhere near comparable to that of iOS.
I even like the shape of my Pixel better. The X's bump is a gimmick at best, a hindrance to app presentation at worst.
Why not? My android phones last multiple years - I've only switched when moving countries and the mobile bands are incompatible. My Nexus 4, from 2012 but running an up-to-date LineageOS, is my current backup phone, and works perfectly. I daresay it works significantly better than my parents similarly aged iPhone 5 (or 5s?), which also has an up-to-date OS, and runs slow as molasses.
But really, the main benefit of Android, for me and most other people I'd guess, is price. The combined purchase price of all 4 of my androids is about equivalent to a single current iPhone flagship (150+300+250+360 Canadian dollars).
I agree with you on general specs - iPhone are pretty much guaranteed to be at (or at least near) the top, for just about every category. Comparing the "average android device" to that will not be favourable. But the android ecosystem does give you a lot more choice - if you stuck to flagship Samsung or equivalent, I think you'd find it to be similarly at-or-near-the-top in most every category. And if, like me, you don't want the best of everything, but rather a decent-at-most-things but at a lower price, Android works better.
€200.
Yes, it is not the best, but honestly I don't need a ferrari to get to work.
Even today, the keyboard on Android forces an entire view refresh, awkwardly jerking the entire view. It's a jarring and unfinished experienced IMO.
I was an iPhone user for some time, but got fed up with Apple telling me what software I could and could not run (without a jail break / side load.) I'd go back if they free up the app store market a bit. I don't find some of their restrictions reasonable.
Apparently if you have had (or currently have) such an account, the period is longer.
You also can't use all the features of the platform, see the "Apple Developer" vs. ADP columns on https://help.apple.com/developer-account/#/dev21218dfd6.
1. Price. 2. Availability. 3. Ability to install apps from apks, & any store instead of only their own store. 4. Many features, like double sim, memory card, otg, etc are only in Android.
I enjoy the ease of pirating apps on Android too.
This is an unfair characterization–am I a software pirate because I don't get all my apps from the App Store on macOS?
Who actually cares that much about which browser rendering engine they use.
Especially since any new one would likely be almost identical to Safari anyway.
Who cares if Firefox or Chrome on iOS support some new feature if everybody is using Safari since it's the default. You can't ignore half of the mobile market when rolling out your website.
Most features you are talking about are not yet Stage 2 supported. Chrome went ahead and built a lot of these features without full TC29 support. Many service worker features are still Stage 0/1. When it hits Stage 2 safari will gain support.
I think the malice attributed to Apple is somewhat earned due to momentum in the PWA space, but is mostly just do to obeying TC29 stages.
If you're happy with your current iPhone (yay!)... why the need for this inflammatory rethoric? Or is it marketing?
My $279 phone has taken more beating than all my iProducts combined and still works great, and whenever it breaks I can fix most of it myself (not having to deal with an apple store is always a big plus).
Apple has been extremely successful at denying problems up until there is a class action lawsuit. Then they silently release a pretty hostile repair program with the words "a small percentage of iDevices ...".
I used to be the biggest apple fanboy, but after having not one, but two macbooks fail on me was more than I was willing to stand. The last time I had to chose: leave the device to them in an official repair programme and have it wiped OR saving the data on it and void any apple repair programme (they later changed this policy though). Why? Because some sort of catch-22 where they would not do data recovery on a device with a faulty logic board (onto which they had soldered the SSD!) and the fix was a new logic board with a new SSD with the old logic board and SSD sent away for refurbishment. Think different!
Don't take my words for it. Take this repair guys words for it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8&t=0s&list=PLkVbIsA...
My iPhone SE is only 2 years old and there are websites that give it trouble still.
As opposed to my 6 year old Air where I can’t tell the difference in performance with my work laptop unless I’m running multiple docker instances or transcoding some video.
Maybe the A12 is the tipping point. 7 years from now, all phones will be at least this fast.
The only thing I notice is that my tuner (Tunable) starts about the same speed as it does on my friends old iPhone 5. There is some touch input latency, but I'm not so easily bothered.
Which web pages are too heavy for your SE?
In iOS 12 the performance of the iPhone 6s was dramatically improved which was released over 3 years ago. And Apple will continue to release software updates for probably another year or two.
How many Android devices are receiving updates 4-5 years after release ?
Phones are no longer "computers". They are personal items that we all depend on. Processors and RAM simply don't matter.
iPhones are worth more than any other phone 2 years after release.
The latest pixel (if you want to use that as a comparison) has better or equivalent specs in almost everything other than CPU power. Lack of support? Well look at how the Nexus 5 still has the latest android version available.
And for me the clincher. Can I install an alternative free OS (like you can install Lineage in the pixel)? If not, then into the trash it goes.
…didn't Google drop support after Marshmallow?
A fair comparison is a Galaxy S/Note vs Iphone and aside from the cpu the Samsung phones win IMO
How do they do it?
2. The mobile phone industry is fiercely competitive while the PC industry has Intel and their near-monopoly.
The more likely explanation is that there is an exponential difficulty curve in CPU optimization and performance that Apple and their admittedly talented engineers are climbing very quickly.
When an Ax chip hits true desktop performance sooner than later, the limit of physics is going to slow down Apple just like it has Intel and AMD. There isn’t any magic they are going to be able to do that suddenly gives them a 2x IPC gain or huge frequency advantage.
The fact that someone can come up with a chip of similar performance to Intel’s isn’t that amazing. The fact that they can do so without needing a fan is.
> The performance measurement was run in a synthetic environment (read: bench fan cooling the phones) where we assured thermals wouldn’t be an issue for the 1-2 hours it takes to complete a full suite run.
Still darn impressive, as in the real world you won’t be doing anything with your phone that maxes out the SoC for 2 hours straight.
If you could pump up the TDP and frequency of the Ax chips to actual desktop class and throw a heatsink on so you don't get thermally throttled, I am sure Apple's chips would be competitive.
It's an inevitability that we'll see a desktop-class Ax powered Macbook at some point soon-ish. When that happens we can start making legitimate comparisons.
There may be a physical limit to the size of transistors but the limit of computing performance is not ‘what Intel is doing’. There’s more to performance than instructions per second or clock frequencies. In fact these don’t lead to the same performance at all as ARM is RISC and x64 is CISC.
Add the GPU and Direct X, and Encode/Decode functionality I know this is not the subject, the ARM processors simply cannot keep up. The author did also mention the limitations of the comparison also as mentioned above the Skylake Xeon is capable of running Hex channel ECC Memory with huge capacity that alone will outpace everything on ARM it's not a fair share of comparison at all. GB is an OS level optimized bench. There's simply no comparison point that exists.
Like I'd say to the author do a 4D render bench like Cinebench then we talk on this. He should at-least have mentioned the uarch part. Also on a side note, Apple underselling the chips ? That's really first, since Apple always over promises. Their latest meltdown on the MacBooks with low quality/specced VRM throttling the CFL machines is a joke.
I expect the primary difference one will find is that Intel has more "large" cores in their chips (full fledged cores) and the comparable instructions have some "gotchas" (like the flag mention) which make them harder to retire early in the pipeline. Toshiba made a funny comment at one of the Microprocessor forums that for their microprocessors, if you only compare the instructions that both they and Intel implement, the Toshiba processor is better in every way.
What is clearly true though is that compatibility aside, ARM chips are becoming serious contenders in the desktop/laptop space sooner than I expected them too.
So, on top of the vertical integration of software/hardware advantage, they have diminished risk.
But it's not the point, main point is that I think statement that current A12 is close (to whatever reasonable %) to top desktop chips is simply not true. I didn't see any concrete evidence of it, and everyone just seem to like this idea, that's why it was talked much lately. I'm all for great advantages and all that, but I still must use common sense, 3-4W vs 150+ W - that's too much.
Per-core power consumption on that Intel chip is 165W/28cores = 5.89W
Apple is pushing similar IPC at 3W instead of 5.89W. In that context, it's not so unbelievable, and it's still really fucking impressive.
And that's my point, Apple already has very impressive thing going on, no need to smudge it with sensationalists statements.
So I do think that Apple is probably going to ARM, but they need to be very careful in the steps they are taking and they need to have a really compelling offer so that users are willing to go through the transition.
By asking developers to port from iOS apps, they have the side effect of getting developers to implement "fully featured" apps, just with a mobile UI. Adobe has already promised they'll be doing this with photoshop and Illustrator, releasing in 2019.
Others will follow suit. Not only will this strengthen the feature set of iOS apps, but it will strengthen the iPad Pro app ecosystem, and apple will simply link the iOS and Mac App Stores, allowing for "universal" apps.
Marzipan will translate them to x86/64 and later when Apple switches to ARM, Marzipan will simply keep these apps on ARM, and change their UI to match.
If you've been watching Apple closely over the last few years, you'll notice that they're consolidating their API's across macS and iOS. Things like Metal and AppKit and UIKit and so on are beginning to converge. This is all setting the stage for Marzipan.
They announced the "first half" of what they intend during the WWDC 2018 keynote. But the second half will be announced only after they reveal ARM Macs, and then "surprise - all the iOS apps you see now are available here, too. They automagically get UI adaptations for mac!"
1: https://ark.intel.com/products/codename/37572/Skylake
2: https://ark.intel.com/products/91169/Intel-Core-i7-6660U-Pro...
Of course there's a different number of cores in each, and the performance of multi-core code will likely differ based on technologies (memory architecture, hyperthreading vs real cores, etc).
If it's accurate, it is still fairly impressive (just not as crazy as it first sounds).
Anandtech is using SpecInt/FP numbers to compare Single core IPC between one A12 BIG core, and one Skylake server CPU core. Per-core power consumption on that Intel chip is 165/28 = 5.89W.
Apple is pushing similar IPC at 3W instead of 5.89W In that context, it's not so unbelievable, but it's still really fucking impressive.
Source: infrastructure operations for a large company using AMD, Intel and ARM CPUs.
Granted, this probably wouldn't hold up for a more sustained workload since the fanless iPhone's going to hit its thermal limits much more quickly than the full-size laptop, but it's pretty impressive that they're edging this close to Intel anyways (in a much smaller, much lower-power package). It'll be really interesting to see what happens with the more unconstrained A12X that'll likely go into the iPad Pro this year.
[1] https://ark.intel.com/products/97496/Intel-Core-i7-7820HQ-Pr...
Anyway though, it's still _very_ impressive from Apple, but much more believable. Looks like they've got very good engineers working on it. I hope they can scale it to the laptop requirements.
I also have benchmarks of Haswell-era hardware which the XS is also very competitive against-- including my personal desktop, which the XS beats in single-core and matches for multi-core. But that one's probably not an entirely fair comparison, given that it's older hardware and the machine wasn't intended to be particularly high-end when I built it.
I'd like to see some more comprehensive benchmarking against Intel... I'd be inclined to do some myself, but I don't have a good benchmarking suite that isn't Geekbench. If only the SPEC benchmarks weren't so stinking expensive...
Well, if the iPhone was also on a battery, that was a fair comparison.
Amber Lake Y (a 2-core part with 4.2 GHz turbo) should achieve similar performance on a single-threaded integer benchmark like that, and it's a 5W part. Still, that's incredibly impressive on Apple's part.
Per-core power consumption on that Intel chip is 165/28 = 5.89W.
Apple is pushing similar IPC at 3W instead of 5.89W. In that context, it's not so unbelievable. But it's still really fucking impressive.
A burst for a few seconds is ok on a phone, but not on a server or workstation.
Here, the prehistoric nature of x86 actually drags it down because of poor predictability
So, I think it's both a matter of comparing Apples to Oranges (ugh, I would use a less confusing analogy if one came to mind) in that the types and usage and number of cores are different, and also just fairly impressive that they can get that much single threaded performance out of the chip.
Apparently the smaller Tempest core from the A12 is being used as the main core in the new Apple Watch. Talk about, uh, synergy.
Pretty awesome, if you think about It. That little watch is more powerful than it appears.
That server CPU has a TDP of 165W. That's 2.95W per thread. So pretty much entirely on par with Apple.
Also, I think I've heard people here noting how hyperthreading causes some workloads to go slower (possibly from CPU heat throttling? Dunno) so some people disable it in the BIOS first thing.
So the truth is likely somewhere between 2.95W/thread and 5.90W/core (assuming 165W is even correct, there's comments here noting while AMD and ARM quote max, Intel quotes operating average...).
Wow.
Does anyone know of more technical reasons for Apple's ARM processors outperforming everyone else's by such a large margin, and for such a long period of time? Seems like there's some fundamental difference in what Apple is doing, and I'd love to read more about it.
People still seem to like writing their own cool malloc, but memcpy not so much.
Things like malloc are quite a bit more complicated, and more workload dependent so there's still some opportunity specializing an implementation there.
I also thought kernel devs would be working against processor ISAs, not hardware-specific details beyond the ISA.
EDIT: But I think another part of it is just being willing to throw more transistors at the problem than Android phone SoC manufacturers are and also that their higher income makes spending more on engineering make sense.
As for Minecraft Pocket Edition, isn't that written in native code anyways? So I'd expect it to perform better on Apple hardware, assuming the hardware is actually the bottleneck for performance.
Mostly, A-series chips have enormous L1 cache, great cache hierarchy and management, and very low memory latency. A12 specifically seems to have included an almost total redesign of the cache hierarchy.
I'm sure there are many more reasons their designs significantly outperform competitors, but I've not seen any more publicly available analysis.
Has this always been the case compared to contemporary Qualcomm/Exynos/etc. SoCs? Not implying your statement is wrong here; all I know is that the A-series chips have had a big performance advantage for a while now and I haven't read more detailed analyses in the past that may have given hints as to why.
Also, how difficult is cache hierarchy/management to get right? For something as fundamental to good performance these days as cache, I would have expected the major players to be on more or less the same playing field.
Apple optimises chip performance
Others optimize chip size
Of course, this iteration apple have beaten almost everyone else to 7nm, so the difference is much more dramatic.
Yes, PA micro was the place where the "last of Mahicans" of US chip industry were.
>Also, apple have pursued 2 (very) fast cores whereas other chips often have 4.
Yes, because people into app development are as web developers, and the word "mutex" gives most of them a panic attack.
Android style java should've been more multi-threading friendly, but that does nothing about people not utilising them.
> this iteration apple have beaten almost everyone else to 7nm, so the difference is much more dramatic.
Yes. I remember how Mediatek beaten Apple to 10nm thanks to them being a Taiwanese company, but nevertheless "ruined it all" with their helio x30's design being designed with more marketing considerations than engineering ones. Their marketing guys couldn't wait to announce "hey we have 2 more cores than you Qualcomm!"
Yes, that's my understanding. I've seen this discussion last year and the year before. And every time the answer seems to be caches. Cache memory is expensive. Apple seems willing to pay more for the SoC in order to have an overall experience that lets them get away with the high prices.
From what I read, Qualcomm would not be able to sell at volume an equivalently performant SoC.
Android manufacturers have more competition, and have to address the low end of the market too. Their money, and attention, is spread in a wider swath.
Samsung comes to mind, surely it's big enough to produce high-performance phones that can compete architecturally with Apple's SoC as well as addressing the developing nation / low-cost phone market?
Sure, yes, but not at a volume that allows them to create a processor that competes with iPhone only on their flagship model. Also, they can't charge $999 for their flagship. The average sales price for an iPhone is higher than the flagship model at Samsung.
https://www.gsmarena.com/analysts_average_selling_price_of_a...
From everything I can tell and looking at the numbers, the high end Android market is minuscule.
The tighter focus, combined with the fact that Apple rakes in more cash to spend on R&D, is why their engineering team is able to win out here.
>Monsoon (A11) and Vortex (A12) are extremely wide machines – with 6 integer execution pipelines among which two are complex units, two load units and store units, two branch ports, and three FP/vector pipelines this gives an estimated 13 execution ports, far wider than Arm’s upcoming Cortex A76 and also wider than Samsung’s M3. In fact, assuming we're not looking at an atypical shared port situation, Apple’s microarchitecture seems to far surpass anything else in terms of width, including desktop CPUs.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13392/the-iphone-xs-xs-max-re...
Apple first moved to wide CPU designs with the Cyclone CPU core found in the A7 SOC first used in the iPhone 5s.
>With Cyclone Apple is in a completely different league. As far as I can tell, peak issue width of Cyclone is 6 instructions. That’s at least 2x the width of Swift and Krait, and at best more than 3x the width depending on instruction mix. Limitations on co-issuing FP and integer math have also been lifted as you can run up to four integer adds and two FP adds in parallel. You can also perform up to two loads or stores per clock.
On a Xeon v3 core, SPECint averages below 2 instructions per cycle: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322745869_A_Workloa.... How does Apple beat Intel on branch integer benchmarks like 403.gcc by a factor of two per clock?
Mostly I'm curious about how complete the bypass network is on their functional units and if execution is clustered like the POWER8. The width doubling in the A series does remind me of the POWER 7 to 8 transition.
Renaming is also apparently a major constraint on design width in many cases but I'm not so familiar with that.
What does "FO4" stand for here? Googling it yields "Fallout 4", which definitely isn't right, and I'm not sure what other keywords to tack on to get the right result.
> Fan-out of 4 is a process-independent delay metric in CMOS tech.
The wrap-up slide at the very end has a bit of a rundown.
http://people.duke.edu/~bcl15/teachdir/ece590_fall14/Present...
You can check that part at least. Isn't it LLVM?
I think it's unlikely they'll update their flagship Mac to a new CPU architecture without notifying developers first. On day one, all existing apps would perform poorly, and that's not how you promote a new top-of-the-line system.
”This also gives us a great piece of context for Samsung’s M3 core, which was released this year […] Here the Exynos 9810 uses twice the energy over last year’s A11 – at a 55% performance deficit.”
Doesn’t that mean the A11 already is three times as efficient as recent Android cores? (The Samsung M3 was in January’s Hot Chips)
I believe they already have that crown have for mobile/low-power, but for desktop/servers nop... not even close considering the microarchitecture their processor are being designed they won't even be close to what intel already does with a single instruction.
But the GHz number on a chip only tells you its clock rate. So if you focus on this, you're missing a crucial aspect of performance (the instructions-per-clock part).
Chip designers can try to increase the clock rate to some insane number, but when they do that, it makes each clock cycle very short, leaving very little time to do productive work.
At any rate, within a particular architecture it's potentially meaningful to look at clock rate. You can expect a 2GHz Pentium 4 to be faster than a 1.5 GHz Pentium 4. It won't be a whole 25% faster, because, for instance, if the processor is waiting for data from RAM, it doesn't matter how fast its clock is ticking, the RAM chips are going to take the same amount of time to get the data that the CPU is waiting for.
But when you talk about completely different designs, e.g., Intel versus AMD, Intel versus Apple, etc., clock speed becomes really and truly meaningless. See for instance the "Comparing" section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_rate
But your actual performance is really more along the lines of clock speed times instructions per cycle. For example, a 5.0 GHz CPU that only achieves 1 instruction per cycle only does half the work of a 2.0 GHz CPU that achieves 5 instructions per cycle.
Some factors that deeply influence achievable IPC include at least (1) the cache sizes and layout, number of load/store pipes, prefetching relevance and timeliness, and overall memory system design, (2) the kinds, number, and capabilities of the execution units and the quality of the scheduler for these units, and (3) the front-end's ability to correctly predict branches, speed of recovery from mispredicts, and general ability to keep feeding the back-end of the machine.
Beyond that you really need to multiply in the amount of actual work done per instruction. A factor here is the instruction set and the ability of the compiler to utilize it to effectively. For instance, a "single" vector instruction may do an amount of computation similar to 4, 8, 16, or even 32 conventional instructions. Code that uses these instructions may get a massive speedup on CPUs that have enough execution resources to execute many or all "lanes" of the instruction in parallel...
I would like to see this speedtest and know the location, please.
https://i.imgur.com/nU4pSKN.png
However my iPhone 8 got 210 Mbps same carrier, same test location, 1 minute apart.
Screenshot of apple.com/iphone/compare: https://i.imgur.com/EKEJ8vE.jpg
It's misleading to say the least.
We participate in a mass delusion where we pretend modern smartphones are edge to edge screen - but they can not be used like that. You either bulk up your phone with a protective cover or you inevitably break the screen. The super tough "gorilla" glass is not suitable for the intended use: using your phone every day in a real world environment. We all pay premium for thin, light, glass/metal, all-screen phones with notches and bumps only to hide them in second plastic bodies made in China.
Compared to my first iPhone 3G w/ rubber+shell case which I absolutely demolished in my jeans longboarding my first time. I still feel bad about that.
At some point phones became less durable than my own body. It's just different.
Is there any modern smartphone that would take this kind of abuse?
I agree that we've reached diminishing returns as far as overall thickness is concerned, though.
Would love to know the split between cased and case-less phone users. I'm in the case-less camp, and even though I think I'm in the minority, I don't think it's as small as it actually is.
Do cellular providers allow 4x4 (or even 2x2) connections? Do they provide gigabit bandwidth to individual devices? I'd be surprised if they simply handed out bandwidth to whomever could suck down the most.
- No I don't want to take hundreds of accidental screenshots a day & upload them to iCloud
- In traffic jams I want to grab my phone with my thumb and have it open right away as my iPhone 8 does. Not mess with it.. put it up to my face & push up to open it. Why add a step?
Im taking this junk back today!
I hear this is a thing, and fine, enough people seem to have this problem that they should probably look at that. But why are you screenshots uploading to icloud? That should only happen if you actually take the step to save the screenshots?
What's making you accidentally hit the screenshot gesture?
This is illegal in 16 US states plus DC.
Removing the fingerprint reader ruined the usability for me.
- Apple Pay ("double-tap the side and look at the phone, then set it on the terminal" is not remotely as fluid as "rest your thumb on the fingerprint reader and touch the phone to the terminal")
- Unlock the phone while it is laying flat on a table/desk in front of you so you can read a notification without picking the phone up and drawing attention that you are doing this.
- Remove the phone from your pocket and press in on the home button with a registered finger so it is fully unlocked and 100% ready to go by the time you can see it in your field of vision.
Overall, however, I am much more bullish on the long term value of Face ID and the phone knowing whether you are paying attention to it or not that I have accepted these downgrades. There are also several upgraded experiences.
I was skeptical, but after seeing that notification texts are hidden by default until I look at the phone, I was then quickly sold on the value.
The added screen real state due to the lack of a home button compensates for the required notch and then some.