This is very hard to believe. Developers hate apple, facebook, and countless other platforms that are doing very well. Adoption is the fundamental problem, not what developers want to support. The platform with the most users is what people will develop for.
And Apple's main draw is the large number of affluent customers. They'll have developers as long as they have those users, whether the developers like it or not. Which is why they can get away with charging 30% to developers when platforms have historically given incentives to developers to develop for their platform.
Apple was successful in building a platform because it's in house developers were capable of putting together something that was popolar with many people. They built on that to make more money by allowing other developers to use their platform.
However two things come to mind:
1. Competency is not a moat. If Apple loses developers it's next product will not be so much better than competition that it's success will maintain against erosion.
2. For all people talk about associating with necessary evils; when you associate with someone long enough, you begin to think they are not evil. Thus it seems reasonable to think developers do not hate Apple, if they work with Apple.
It's almost as if users patronize Comcast because they like internet access and Comcast is not truly liked for itself. It's almost as if drivers patronize the DMV because they like driving without being arrested and the DMV is not truly liked for itself.
There is a big difference between needing something and liking it.
> Apple was successful in building a platform because it's in house developers were capable of putting together something that was popolar with many people. They built on that to make more money by allowing other developers to use their platform.
But who are they to be allowing anything? GE makes a fine electrical distribution panel but that doesn't mean they get to decide what kind of lamp or microwave or laptop I can use with it.
> 1. Competency is not a moat. If Apple loses developers it's next product will not be so much better than competition that it's success will maintain against erosion.
Network effects are a moat. Apple had the first mover advantage, so they had the initial users and the developers follow the users. Then the users stay because the developers are there and the developers have no choice but to stay if they want access to those users.
The users could switch to Android -- most of them already have. But the developers can't make the remaining users move outside of some sufficiently large organized boycott, which are notoriously difficult to effectuate because of the coordination problem.
> 2. For all people talk about associating with necessary evils; when you associate with someone long enough, you begin to think they are not evil. Thus it seems reasonable to think developers do not hate Apple, if they work with Apple.
By this logic the most beloved entity in the country should be the IRS. And if people had to file four times a year instead of once they would like them even more.
One reason the world is so screwed up in 2018 is that people think they have to get everything for free.
Thus "your smartphone" is really an extension of other people's brands. It's not a tool to control your environment but a way sinister forces in the environment control you.
I like Linux for certain things but since you don't pay for it you influenced by the priorities of those who do pay: IBM, Google, the corporate customers of Red Hat.
Since you do pay for Windows and you do have a choice, Microsoft is working for you and there is an incentive to make the OS better.
There are other kinds of developers.
Other developers may love it.
If early computing was a walled garden environment like iOS I never would have been a developer.
Each computer system was its own eco-system with special hardware features.
The PC was the exception to it, only because IBM wasn't too clever about securing the platform like everyone else.
I think you may be too focused on how developers decide a platform that is already successful. In that case, yes, which one is already adopted the most deserves strong consideration. However, when it comes to actually achieving adoption, it’s the platform that developers flock to that tend to succeed, all else being equal. We are talking about relatively fresh terrain here. There isn’t already a huge federated system like this that has a lot of mainstream adoption.
Perhaps, but I struggle to think of two comparable platforms with similar user adoption and significantly different developer interest, outside of there being different sets of developers that hate/love each (c.f. iOS and Android). I'm definitely not aware of any examples indicating a platform can be saved or damned by developers loving/hating it: e.g. most developers hated developing for the PS3 initially but it didn't fare badly in the console wars. Xbox One however did do much worse than the PS4 because fewer users wanted it.
But I think you do have a point. It's not just developer preference, there are other big factors like feature offered and ease of entry that determine likelihood of success.
and why is that possible? it's because the backend is decoupled from where the users are.
Linux would hardly be where it is without the help of Intel, IBM, HP, SGI, Hollywood studios, ...
The lack of focus on UI/UX and a full stack experience for frontend developers (native/web).
Hence why Android and ChromeOS succeed at it, while hiding what kernel they run on.
This is true of most things. Applicants flock to the industry that is hiring the most. It would be nice if the industry hiring the most was the most worthy, but that is doubtful. Consider mining communities.
As to facebook, we’ll see if it survives. There’s not much to use it for aside from advertising as a platform, and I’ve heard nothing but negatives about return on ads.
Most JS developers quite like stuff like react, and most api developers like graphQL. So while developers may dislike Facebook as a company, they don’t seem to dislike Facebook tools.
I don’t think the platform that developers like will necessarily take of though.
I'm just letting you know that we both apparently have very biased samples on this matter.
When I was 20 years younger most developers I knew loved Linux. So maybe she plays in. I know I left gentoo for a Mac in 2006 and I’ve never looked back.
I don’t dislike Linux by the way, I just don’t want to spend time configuring things anymore.
currently develop on mac but still linux at home
These days it's more than that though. I mean, I'm completely drenched in the apple eco-system, and it's kind of nice to get iMessages on my MacBook and sharing data between devices so easily. I now I could setup something similar with stuff like own cloud, but then I'd have to do that, instead of it just working out the box.
Like I said, I don't dislike linux. I've never really disliked an OS until windows 10, but I just don't bother with technology that isn't designed for user experience anymore.
Like my first smartphone was an android, I don't think I'll ever own an android phone again. :p
No, most developers don't hate anything. Most developers are just normal people makin' stuff because their company pays them to.
Most developers are not particularly ideological.
Just some of us are ... perhaps a little bit more than in other industries.
Facebook is legendary for introducing breaking changes to their API without warning, for having terrible documentation, baroque and inconsistent APIs, flaky behaviour and broken examples.
Whatever you think of Facebook the company, Facebook the API is something everyone I know has horror stories about.
And normal people do have feelings. So they like or love the things they do, or despise or even hate them. Unless they became mindles zombies along the way.. which happens, but much more common is rather that they project all the other negative feelings into technology X or Y ... at least it often seems like this, when I read another rant about the technology Z.
I really dislike this HN generalization that software developers are a big mass of people that think all the same way, which most of the time is actually a synomim for a thin subgroup of developers doing web applications with CLI tooling on UNIX like OSes.
There are many kinds of developers out there, some of us have experienced multiple kinds of platforms and development models towards the years, to make our business decisions how to provide our work according to points of view and related cost/benefit.
Have you tried developing an app for it? Docs are solid, but time is valuable. Why don't they include a bunch of super simple apps to show how it all works and make entry as easy as possible?
I want solid to succeed (well, anything comparable is also ok), but as much as I don't like it, marketing wins over how good the product is. That's just how it is today. That's how open source libraries and projects grow. It has to do with tons of available information, world moving forward very fast and our limited attention.
There is a bubble or perspective that derides everything popular as toxic, but I encourage you to think in degrees, and compare things.
For example, visit voat.co, and then 4chan, and then compare them to the sites you listed. And hell! compare them to your family discussions, and what you see on fox/cnn/msnbc. I bet you can find a spectrum of toxic content, and I bet the sites you listed aren't at the extreme toxic end.