Hacker News Reader

Hacker News

Comment by yahoo234 | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

yahoo234

Gaza is ¬1M people and has received tens of BN$ of aid.

Israel has withdrawn all its forces from Gaza 10 years ago.

At what stage do Gazan start behaving like responsible adults rather than blaming the Great Satan?

View on HN

> At what stage do Gazan start behaving like responsible adults rather than blaming the Great Satan?

I stopped breaking your legs - at what stage do you start behaving like a responsible adult and run again rather than blaming me ?

Also, Israel's chokehold on Gaza has relaxed - but it is still a chokehold. And Egypt isn't helping either. How do you expect Gaza to function without an airport (destroyed by Israel), without a significant harbour and without even reasonably permeable land crossings ?

For some recent history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

Israel withdrew its forces to the border, but still intervened often. It controls the population register, who and what gets in and out including essential medicines and people who need urgen medical care. As noted it restricts access to much of the farmland and fishing areas. It’s for these reasons that many consider Gaza to still be occupied territory.

Probably the moment the 'Great Satan' stops to control all flow of goods into and out of the Gaza. It's easy to say Israel has withdrawn when all they did was move a few kilometers further out.

What would you recommend Israel do when Hamas's charter literally says that they what to destroy Israel and the Jews? Hamas is Gaza's elected party and letting them import weapons is very bad for Israeli civilians.

Hamas is Israel's creation. Fatah were the dominant political force in Gaza over the decades and decades of oppression until Hamas were finally founded more recently as an attempt at firmer and less tolerant response to Israel.

Sure, but you didn't answer the question. Even if Hamas and even Gaza are totally Israel's fault, the fact that Hamas wants to destroy Israel makes some of Israel's actions pretty damn rational. What else can they do? "Shit, we pushed these Palestinians way too hard for way too long. Fair enough, they can bomb the shit out of our country now".

All that said, I'm not invested in the matter, and I'm a geopolitics noob, but I wonder what would happen if Israel would, unprovoked and unilaterally, drop all restrictions, recognize Palestina as a country and supply as much financial aid as is needed to rebuild the place. Just overnight. Wouldn't Hamas's support crumble instantly? Wouldn't the atmosphere be exactly like when they took down the Berlin wall?

I mean, would Palestinian combatants truly use the newly opened borders to immediately drive into Tel Aviv and shoot everybody? Tbh I don't see it.

Exactly. For all of Hamas' talk, it's not only reactive, it also results in a disproportionately small level of anti-Israel violence in practice due mostly to lack of resources (comparatively).

If Israel withdrew all restrictions unilaterally, would there be offensive actions by Hamas: almost certainly. But they'd likely be on a scale many orders of magnitude smaller than Israel's actions to date, and I doubt they'd be sustained.

Seriously? So following your logic the US should just let al qaeda access to weapons and let them vent off in NY.

"would there be offensive actions by [al qaeda]: almost certainly. But they'd likely be on a scale many orders of magnitude smaller than [US's actions in Afghanistan] to date, and I doubt they'd be sustained"

I hope I'll never live in a country that will allow their citizens to die in order to appease some murderous religious group.

Israel continues to block access to 35% of the arable land in Gaza, and to prevent access to 85% of it's waters. The Israeli blockade prevents access to food, fuel and medical supplies.

> withdrawn all its forces from Gaza 10 years ago

That doesn't include airstrikes which are regular and ongoing:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-ai...

no contradiction there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incendiary_balloon#Gaza_Strip_...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant#Violence_agains...

(just a few samples)

Israel withdrawn but there is still an ongoing (sometimes quiet) war.

So lets get this straight - the single variable that explains the situation of millions of people happens to be a subjective opinion of the moral failings of people you've never met. Nice!

Reply on news.ycombinator.com