Thirsty Cities Drill for Water | Hacker News Reader

Thirsty Cities Drill for Water

pulitzercenter.org

58 pointskawera24 comments

Rapidly depleting groundwater aquifers are a slow-moving, but impending humanitarian disaster.

In particular, Western US states have seen particularly rapid depletion in recent years that could threaten the viability of cities and agriculture in the coming decades.

Popsci overview: Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56140.Cadillac_Desert

USGS Report: https://pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2013/5079/

Fictional horrorshow: The Water Knife by Paolo Bacigalupi

Came here to say this. Kudos on the links.

I'll just add: and with fracking, it only gets worse. 500+ chemicals injected into the aquifer, that took millions of years to become what it is... it's hubris thinking this isn't a problem.

They aren't being injected into aquafers we use for water. They already have a bunch of nastyness in them

Fracking is about 5000 ft down, aquifers are generally 500 to 2000. What's the mechanism for the contamination?

You just pointed out that the drilling is through the aquifer. And, as pointed out, they reinject waste products. Does anyone believe there is zero contamination?

Yes, of course there can be contamination, but it's not guaranteed. First, you are drilling through the ground water. Second, you broke through those layers to go do. Hopefully the tech and practices in the field prevent this. But we know it does happen because some people have had their water ruined. Plus, we know it has strong potential because of state legislatures being encouraged to make laws protecting the drillers (not the home owners).

The reinjection of waste fracking water is the common issue.

"Oops, we broke containment"

Ground water depletion is a big problem. The issue generally is whenever lower level ground water is cannibalized without giving it enough time to replenish water level tends to go deeper. This turns into a vicious cycle and destroys the ecosystem it sustains on the surface. Many parts of India people are drilling 500+ ft. to tap into ground water and now that everyone is forced to dig even deeper.

Should throw in a mention of land subsidence too

Yeah land subsidence is also big in so many places and can cause permanent structural damage to the building or infrastructure.

Groundwater use by cities is more economically productive than it's use by agriculture. The former should be privileged in the inevitable allocation conflicts.

Not all "groundwater use by cities is more economically productive than it's use by agriculture". People use hoses to wash cars and sidewalks. How about an auction system, with a cash subsidy to allow the poor to buy enough for hydration and basic hygiene?

Not really.

Farms can't afford to pay municipal rates which people washing their cars do. If you look at the cost of a car wash paying even say 0.1 cent per gallon would make a minimal difference, but no farm could afford to pay 0.1 cent per gallon.

Any system that forces farmers to compete with other users of water means the farmers lose.

You can think of a system in which farms are just not built in places with potential water scarcity, but built to use renewable water sources for their plant growth.

My point: If you build a company in a location which is unviable in the long term, should you be subsidized as to not move to a more viable location? I think such subsidies are unviable in any but the short term, and are counterproductive for every other party involved.

Very good point.

However, I still think an auction system would create less distortion than case-by-case measures to de-prioritize agriculture in allocation conflicts.

If you price farmers out of the water market, they will produce less food. Can you imagine what happens when we start having large scale food shortages?

You just don't know about sustainable agriculture and drip irrigation. So, your comment isn't well informed. We won't have a good shortage. The smart farmers will figure a way out.

How do you know whether they know about drip irrigation?

And if they produce less food, prices will rise and they'll have more money to buy more water or Lord forbid make some investments in water sustainability.

Not everyone likes Soylent.

If I may elaborate, cheap (subsidized?) access to water in agriculture is what makes food products as cheap as they are today. Any water scarcity applied to agriculture will affect the cities through higher food prices.

It will end up affecting different foods differently. Nuts, meats and other complex proteins are likely to be among the most price affected.

Doesn’t that imply we’re hiding some of the costs for nuts and meat today?

The US government subsidizes almost all agriculture in some way, water subsidies help nut & meat production the most from what I've read, but often times states will offer tax rebates for the agricultural use of land and just in the last fifty years or so has agricultural run off been regarded as a cost that should be paid by the farmer instead of an unbalanced externality.

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