Biased News Media or Biased Readers? An Experiment on Trust
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
Example: in my country the most popular news outlet has lots and lots of haters, obviously there will be bias against their brand, but not undeserved, they admitted themselves openly to have manipulated news for political reasons in the past, caused some mass panic and ruined people lives with literal fake news, got convicted more than once for libel, and their reporters and anchors often express their political views openly on air...
At least in the British system people acknowledge this as a reality of newspapers, which generally endorse specific parties or candidates. The TV news is more of a problem. I'm not sure the problem with BBC political coverage is bias per se as that much of it is terrible and includes inviting terrible people to be on Question Time because they generate lots of controversy.
(It's also interesting that we on the internet consider doxxing to be some sort of Queensbury rules violation, while newspapers consider finding someone and interrogating them on their doorstep in front of their family to be standard operating procedure. Not to mention hacking their voicemail.)
W.R.T. Question Time, I'm not sure what you mean by "terrible people" (this itself seems like a rather problematic extension of political views to inherent goodness or evilness of a person), but it's pretty common for the BBC to fill Question Time panels with people who are not representative of the country, e.g. one person who is in favour of Brexit and all the rest are against. Presumably if political neutrality was aggressively enforced they'd try to match viewpoints on political panel shows with the rough proportions you'd find in the actual population.
Basically, they investigated and then showed gasp discretion. Yet, people somehow think they did something wrong?
The issue is the implication, that if the guy had not apologized they would then do something. Instead of only doing something if the guy started sending death threats or something.
The problem is it seems they used their journalistic position to blackmail someone into a particular course of action, and they are using the threat of future blackmail/doxxing to enforce continued compliance from that person.
IMHO, it's journalists' job to report newsworthy facts to the public. It's unethical for them to either hide or reveal facts based on other agendas, which include such small agendas as getting a particular reddit jerk to be a bit more circumspect.
> The issue is the implication, that if the guy had not apologized they would then do something. Instead of only doing something if the guy started sending death threats or something.
Was the creator of the gif actually sending death threats and the like, or is that something you made up?
Now, if CNN actually threatened the guy that's not ok. But, this comes down to what you assumed might have happened, not something that we know actually happened. Another possibility is they called the guy up for a story and he was instantly apologetic on his own initiative.
> Was the creator of the gif actually..
I said "if the guy started" as I assumed he had not done so.
I am simply saying treating such things as potentially serous signs of another possible newsroom shooting in the making is understandable. Not because of his actions are unreasonable, rather because of crazy people also doing similar things in the past. Organizations of this size are already paying people to do this stuff, the guy happened to hit the radar enough that he was next on the list.
>CNN is not publishing "HanAholeSolo's" name because he is a private citizen who has issued an extensive statement of apology, showed his remorse by saying he has taken down all his offending posts, and because he said he is not going to repeat this ugly behavior on social media again. In addition, he said his statement could serve as an example to others not to do the same.
>CNN reserves the right to publish his identity should any of that change.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politics/kfile-reddit-user-tr...
Yeah. It seems to me that they found out that people impart the bias they know a media company has onto the output of that company.
I think a better rephrasing of the findings would be: 'people are not able to properly identify the bias of an article just by reading the content'.
It's circular in the sense that because a bias is perceived from an organisation, the content of that organisation is attributed a certain bias by the reader, which reinforces the reader's idea of that organisation's bias.
Although that is, indeed circular, it's also how humans tend to perceive and process information.
> Your argument is that readers can't determine an article's bias by reading it.
I fail to see how that is true. If I were to, for example, write an article about a contentious subject, say, for example the positive or negative effect of Trump on America's economy, how, from just the article itself, would you be able to determine whether it was a biased or not?
> There seems to be a definition of bias you're using here that can't be measured.
I didn't make claims about the measurability of bias.
I think the tools for measuring engagement have led to optimizing toward misleading click bait, and I would say that just about all of America's large media outlets are prone to this (to varying degrees).
In the case of journalism and (say) voting. The act of voting, like it or not, creates (and/or acknowledges) a bias. Of course, this applies to everyone as well.
As a side note, of sorts, earlier this year I read the book "The Influential Mind" by Tali Sharot. While she didn't address it directly she explains quite a bit of the dysfunctional discourse in todays (digital / social media) world.
I don't think it's purely about financial incentives to be honest. I suspect that many journalists view themselves as primarily social activists rather than chroniclers, and being able to directly influence society in a major way is effectively seen as part of the compensation package.
Once trust is broken it's hard to get back. So maybe news is also about trust. Hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube.
But a person can read millions of lines of source code. It's perfectly possible given enough time and with a solid team you can do it in 90 days.
Trust is not the problem. Nobody actually needs trust any more. It's a 19th century concept. Modern markets select away inefficient and unpredictable collaboration protocols like trust and replaces them with violence, transparency, and pervasive surveillance.
The problem is the lack of verifiability. The vast majority of what comes out of the American media is unverifiable nonsense. Take out all the anonymous sources, leaked but undisclosed emails, "he said, she said", baseless speculation and the ever popular "reporting of reporting" (where media entity A reports on X simply because media entity B reports X -- even though X is pure bullshit) and what you'd be left with is the market data and live events.
TFA is probably right that most Americans are hopelessly biased. But this may be the natural result of a media diet that is so completely lacking in basic verifiable information. Any conman knows if you ask people to believe X without evidence they will only believe it if they want to believe it (and they will believe it much more strongly than they would if you had presented evidence). Do this enough times and you can train people to believe anything, again without a shred of evidence. The end result is a nation of media consumers trained from a very young age to accept information without evidence so long as that information confirms their own ideology.
Read any story that involves Russia and spend a few minutes doing fact checking. Or check back after a week. You'll find the story is very likely to be factually wrong and might have been retracted.
You don't need anything more than Google to reveal that the stories are false, sometimes not even that - just reading the story carefully and watching for internal contradictions is sufficient. But almost everyone I meet believes these stories completely.
For some reason lots of people desperately want to believe that Russia is the bogeyman. They not only won't use simple and easy tools available to them, they actually get upset when other people do it.
We need a decentralized information verification system. The old centralized methods are not working at our current scale.
I am basing my idea of this off of a blockchain based approach but I am not sure if that is what you are referencing.
Even worse -- a decentralized information verification system will endorse the opinions of the few while claiming to be majority-rule.
Speaking of truth, framing is very important and for a platform like this: a majority opinion wouldn’t represent “indisputable truth” but rather “our current best collective guess”. You don’t treat knowledge in your head as immutable, you update it when you find better information (ideally).
I guess if I was going to work on such a system I'd start with better commenting and forum systems.
Most modern news are irrelevant information. You can take almost any article and reduce it to a single paragraph without loosing informative, factual content. So why are we pushed to read the rest?
This is much harder to measure because it involves looking at news outlets retrospectively over time. A newspaper that accurately reports what bad sources have said may not be "biased" but can make the public significantly more misinformed.
Sure, the system is not perfect. But the alternatives are far worse.
We are all biased. All of us. We are all tribal neanderthals with a thin sense of bias, period. As quickly as old biases are torn down, humans will erect new biases and causes to rally around.
It will always be a battle of in-group vs. out-group from now to the end of time. Not saying bias itself isn't worth fighting. Maybe we can minimize bias.
In my experience, the only way to minimize bias, is to discuss, debate, and digest a wide variety of views.
My main problem with discourse today is that the very mechanism for breaking down bias (debate and discussion) has broken down. You can't debate things anymore without being labelled something atrocious.
> You can't debate things anymore
I can't stop hearing this "it used not to be like this". Does this erroneous argument has a name?
I attribute a lot of the belief that the past was an intellectual wonderland to the fact that in the past, only intellectuals had a chance to communicate over the mechanisms that were both widespread and lasting. There is a extremely effectual selection process on what has survived to be seen by us as we look back in time that biases us to see a more intellectual, positive time. As communication became cheaper, more and more people become involved, and inevitably that pulled the center away from the extreme intellectual center that it occupied before, by sheer regression to the mean.
But there is one relevant change. Even fairly recently you could go online and hear people cite the idea that an argument is separate from the arguer, and that it's a fallacy to attack the arguer. That's no longer accepted by any culture I'm aware of, up to and including academic culture which has wholeheartedly embraced the idea of attacking the arguer and discrediting them at the most fundamental levels they possibly can. There's hardly even anybody paying lip service to the idea, except a few people who haven't realized that time has passed them by and a few diehard idealists. (Like me, who still thinks it's a basic foundation of anything worthy of being called "intellectual". But I recognize that my belief in that statement doesn't make it something that exists in the real world.) There was a time when I could debate things on the Internet, and if insulted, other people would cite the principle and ignore the insults. Now making unpopular arguments carries real risks of being the target of an Internet mob, and every argument is unpopular with a lot of people. Yes, that is a real change that has happened.
You could argue that had this level of easy communication existed in any previous era, the same result would have obtained. I'd be down with arguing that humans fundamentally lack the ability to intellectually debate things at this scale and mob mentality would have been inevitable in any time in history where such technology was introduced and that there is nothing necessarily special about today's people. But it is a change that has occurred in the past 20 years for sure. Posting controversial opinions online has always required a certain amount of fortitude for the resulting responses, but there was never a mechanism that allowed the responses to magnify into a feedback loop so large that it could cost you your job or more.
I go so far as to put gossip [propagating labels] in with party to manslaughter, given that without connections it’s near impossible to even make income and people may contract “give-up-itus” from the trauma.
My newest label is homeless, following from bigot. Hoping to stop before Felon, but free food and housing and $12/day job and entry into a protected hiring class is tempting.
But ... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/08/opinion/facts-have-a-well...
THE ONLY REASON I SAID !!!!!!
(When asked what the clearest sign of extreme bias in someone is, the above statement is my answer. If you're thinking of saying "facts have X bias" or "reality is biased" ... You've gone off the deep end)
The more I see the more I think many if not most reporters/journalists/media people are sociopaths. definitely not better than politicians.
What I found is that there's an enormous amount of group think and yes, sociopathic tendencies among journalists. They also tend to tweet a lot, like 30-40 times a day.
Ironically the archetypal example of this is Sarah Jeong and the New York Times. That they would publish this article about bias in their readership, while being obviously biased themselves pretty much sums up that whole sociopath thing...
By the best interpretation of this statement, it is highly confused as to what sociopathy is, and may be harmful in its belief that normal human cognitive biases are signs of mentally ill behavior. It makes total sense that people would have inconsistent metrics applied to themselves vs to others. It's normal human psychology.
So I'd say it goes beyond just regular, every day human psychology and into sociopathy or whatever the organizational equivalent is.