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Unless you were getting wasted it's quite unusual for a few drinks to make you feel bad.

Also, there is more and more a decent selection of <0.5% alcohol beers - I find this the easiest way to not get strange looks when at a drinking occasion.

But then again, maybe the point of drinking together is it provides some kind of bonding effect, being a shared vice. It makes it harder to lie and shows you value others more than your own health (relatively).

I noticed even a single normal ABV beer makes a noticeable impact on my workout the following morning (I workout 5 mornings per week). There's just an a edge I don't have if I had a drink the previous night, and it definitely doesn't require overindulging.

How do you define quite unusual? I’m not East Asian, but I most often get symptoms similar to Alcohol Flush Reaction with even only a single drink. I often find a single beer strong. I’ve never been able to figure out why sometimes I’ll get a headache after a single beer.

“Approximately 36% of East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans) show characteristic physiological responses to drinking alcohol that includes facial flushing, nausea, headaches and a fast heart rate.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction

Diabetes, poor liver and/or kidney function, similar genetic mutation, etc. There are a host of reasons, I would bring it up with your physician, as they may have more insight than a psudoanonymous commenter.

It could be some other cause too. A couple of years ago I started noticing that one or two beers would make me almost drunk and to feel terrible the next morning. I attributed it to aging (36) but I also noticed none of my friends had the same problem.

Later, I was diagnosed with sleep apnea and after daily treatment now drinking a few beers is completely ok.

I don't understand what the relationship between those two things are. I would have never imagined.

Also medication.

When I was twenty pounds heavier, a few drinks had no effect on me. Now that I am healthy and running every day, I notice every drink has an effect on my performance. I think the extra fat just helped distribute the effects of alcohol.

> Unless you were getting wasted it's quite unusual for a few drinks to make you feel bad.

Is it, though? I know plenty of people who will just waste whole days away in front of the TV doing nothing because they don't feel like doing anything else. People are constantly telling me they're "tired". I used to be like that too. But now I work on my career or on my hobbies day in, day out. Barring seasonal illnesses I never have down days.

Have you ever abstained for a while from alcohol? I used to drink like a degenerate in college (easily 10+ drinks on a night out).

I cut out drinking altogether for about a year right after college. Since then, I drink maybe 6 times a year. If I drink anything more than two drinks I feel pretty horrible and can feel it the next day.

The places I've been to in the Bay Area has never served anything like <0.5% beer. I'd much rather drink something like ginger beer or kombucha anyway, which is what I do given the occasion.

I beg to disagree.

In my case, even a small amount of alcohol consumption will make me feel heavy in my abdomen the morning after.

People in my family have historically been alcohol drinkers. So idk why, but it helps since I dislike drinking anyways.

> Obviously I can't say anything about my own longevity, but over the past few years my alcohol consumption has decreased to virtually zero and I've never felt better. I was never a big drinker, but I would semi-regularly go out and drink a few pints of beer or have wine with dinner. I never intended to cut down on alcohol, but my lifestyle changed, I stopped going out so much, and the drinking went with it. I would still drink maybe once a month, but I've realised that it makes me feel bad every time, so I now completely abstain.

Same is happening to me.

And the last time I bought alcohol, I bought a pack of 0% alcohol beer by mistake at the supermarket. I would never do that intentionally, as I consider 0% alcohol beer a ridiculous idea and also never tried it. However, I finished the pack, and the first beer was special. It actually tastes like beer, without alcohol, it's mainly sugar with water.

Won't buy another pack ever again, but it was an interesting experience and opened my eyes about the taste of beers

I maintain that alcohol-free beer is one of the best post-workout drinks available. As I see it, the proper place of alcohol-free beer is not as a replacement for regular beer, but as a replacement for energy drinks and sodas.

What, why? Would kvass (0.5-2% abv, from fermented bread ) work then?

I wish somebody would make an alcohol-free IPA that actually tasted like the real thing. Surely possible with Science™?

> For some reason you are expected to provide a reason for why you don't drink

I grew up in a family that didn't drink - and this was always weird/uncomfortable to explain to friends.

I do drink now; but I've noticed over the years that it is becoming much more socially acceptable to not drink ..and people don't think it so strange; "I just don't like it", "religious beliefs", "trying to get healthier". So, yeah, people still ask "why?", but often out of genuine curiosity IMHO.

This is a good thing - frankly, I like to have a drink with friends, but its more about being with the friends - and if they're drinking soda I'm just as happy they're with us.

related: I wonder if there is an emerging market for craft non-alcoholic cocktails in bars similar to the emergence of low-alcohol craft beers (in the ~2% range).

Kombucha is certainly a market. There is also a large variety of non-alcohol beers.

true that - I've seen a ton of Kombucha.

On the beer side - I see a lot less (here in Portland OR) but read more about the trend. ...I might not be looking hard enough though.

I buy mine in large wine store Total Wine, but there is decent selection in Safeway as well.

Looking at their site - nice selection! - wish they had a beer filter for "low abv" or similar.

It is called mocktails and every proper cocktail bar has at least as many as regular cocktails. If your cocktail bar does not, then you are overpaying for a spruced up dive bar experience.

> The interesting thing is how people react to it. For some reason you are expected to provide a reason for why you don't drink. I don't smoke either but nobody asks me why. I've noticed also that it makes people uncomfortable if you're not drinking. When I do go out now I drink diet soft drinks so that I don't get constantly asked why I don't have a drink.

Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-X2zPMB5dk

I never drank aside from a few sips in past attempts to placate people bothering me about drinking. I used to be more annoyed by people who seem to really want to know why, but I've found that simply being firm about not drinking is usually enough to get people to drop the subject. I don't usually give a reason, as that seems to be an invitation for others to harass you. I also will refuse to even sip an alcoholic beverage for the same reason.

Some people seem to take the fact that you don't drink as personally offensive, as if you are judging others for drinking. But I really don't care that much about how much you drink any more than I care about how much ketchup you put on your fries. That is, I don't care much at all unless you're using obviously too much. The view that non-drinkers are judgmental seems to be caused by a combination of psychological projection and the drinker having mixed feelings about alcohol.

If I had to give a reason, it would be something like this: I never was convinced of any benefit from drinking, but I can see many risks. The main benefit to me is that many drinkers will socially exclude non-drinkers, but I think a better solution is to avoid people who don't like non-drinkers.

The reasons I've heard from people about why they drink or want to encourage me to drink vary a lot. One that comes to mind is "I want you to be happy", which don't find convincing because I am perfectly happy and don't think drinking would improve my happiness. The people who insist that I just haven't tried the right drink are getting tiring. If you didn't like ketchup and I said that you haven't tried the right ketchup and then insisted that you try small amounts of a half dozen ketchups, that would be considered fairly weird. But it happens to non-drinkers.

It depends on the country.

In France we were raised on water (school, home - surely tzp wzter in large quantities) then wine and beer (not that much soft drinks compared to US).

When you go to the restaurant, it is meal to order tap water (no matter the restaurant) and often you will find some people drinking water, some other wine. Yesterday (upscale restaurant) it was 50/50 at my table

In z bar people commonly take a juice when other take alcohol.

Nobody ever saw that as weird in my circle of friends (an average and quite random one)

> I've noticed also that it makes people uncomfortable if you're not drinking.

Last night I watched a video by Mel Robbins on friendship¹ in which she made the very cogent argument that when you mention you don't want to drink you remind others in your social circles of their own struggle to quit drinking, hence the negative feedback. Her solution is to accept that those people are part of an old chapter of your life, and although you don't dislike them in anyway, it's important to recognize that you will slowly develop new friendships with those that match the lifestyle you now choose to live.

__________

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXAc6ln6xBs

The USA tried that once, and the results were so horrifically bad that I doubt we will try it again. It resulted in organized crime openly running the cities of Chicago and New York, because they outgunned the cops. It was much like what Columbia was like at the height of their troubles with cocaine druglords.

Now there has been a shift in regards to driving while intoxicated, but that happened about 20 years ago, and while it has continued, it shows no signs of leading to a movement to make alcohol illegal. On the other hand, marijuana legalization is gathering steam lately.

I didn't say anything about making alcohol illegal. I'm completely opposed to the government telling people what they can put inside their bodies.

Aha, I misunderstood, sorry.

> but I've realised that it makes me feel bad every time.

Between not drinking alcohol at all and drinking so much that you feel bad the following day there is a middle ground of drinking moderately. If a low amount still makes you feel bad, drinking alcohol of a better quality can help (there is a huge difference in this regard between really cheap wines and more expensive ones).

Or... he could not drink at all. That's amazing, tbh, good for him.

It’s also possible that no such middle ground exists, and some people are just less attuned to the hangover effect. Or maybe some people do and some don’t suffer from heightened sensitivity. I don’t see how you can make a blanket assertion that moderate drinking with no ill effect is available to anyone.

In fact the topic article describes research suggesting that there is no “good” amount.

> blanket assertion that moderate drinking with no ill effect is available to anyone.

For me if you have ill effects it is no longer moderate drinking. Note that I am talking about short-term effects such as having an hangover, not the long-term issues that are the topic of the "good" amount in the article.

For sure according to my definition for some people such a level may be zero, and in that case they should refrain from drinking, but the person I replied too talked about "a few pints of beer" at a time, not exactly a minimal amount.

I agree with the observation that people expect a reason. At least in my experience in Australia, "no thanks, I'm driving" works well. It is somewhat socially unacceptable to convince a driver to drink, and bar staff are supportive generally.

> When I do go out now I drink diet soft drinks so that I don't get constantly asked why I don't have a drink.

That's probably one of the absolute worst ideas one could have as a substitution.

If that was the extent of your drinking, I doubt that was the major factor in your improved health. I would look to the things you consumed while drinking, such as rich full-fat restaurant food in big portions, salty carb-heavy fatty snacks and second-hand smoke.

Cutting out alcohol completely is certainly not a bad thing health-wise, but I think it was much more significant that you stopped going out so much.

Nah, I still do eat rich full-fat, salty, and carb-heavy food. Trust me, it's the alcohol. The day after drinking used be completely wasted for me. Now every day can be very productive.

You didn't ask for this suggestion, but I'll say it anyway: evidence suggests that making a similar switch in your regular diet would have a material impact on your well-being beyond what you've experienced with alcohol. If you think back to your drinking days and think you would have gained more from quitting alcohol much earlier, just imagine how you would feel by improving your diet.

My diet is very well-controlled. I fast for 20 hours every day and have a perfectly balanced intake. But if I drink alcohol I will sleep badly and I will have a bad day tomorrow. Why do people refuse to believe this?

> full-fat, salty, and carb-heavy food.

> My diet is very well-controlled

Pick one

You've posed a false choice, well-controlled quantities of high fat/salt/carb food is not a conundrum

Carb-heavy and well-controlled mean different things.

This comment thread just reinforces your argument (my belief as well) that people will go out of their way to try and normalize drinking, just like smoking used to be in the 60s.

I get constant questions as well unless I'm babying a random non-alcoholic beverage. I've found that the best non-follow up to "why don't you drink?" is "I used to drink a lot but my doctor told me to try and abstain for my health."

No, the issue is simply that the alcohol intake he describes should not have that big of an impact.

A few pints of beer or some wine with dinner should not completely wreck the day after, unless there is some medical condition that is worsening the effect.

Personally, I don't care of people drink or not, that's their choice. What I'm saying is that his intake was probably heavier than he claims, which would certainly account for his marked improvement in health when he cut out alcohol completely.

My intake was not heavier than I claimed. If you read my post again you'll see that I went for complete abstinence only after drinking became an occasional thing for me. When you drink a few pints of beer once after a month or more of no drinking it has a massive effect.

People disputing this have probably never gone more than a week without alcohol. I'm not prepared to maintain a tolerance to alcohol and it makes me feel bad when I drink occasionally.

All I'm claiming is that a literal poison has a negative effect on me that far outweighs any positive I get from the enjoyment of drinking. Yet people are jumping up in arms saying there must be something wrong with me because they drink regularly and feel fine. I think people could do with some careful introspection and maybe to reconsider what "fine" is.

I occasionally go a month or two without touching alcohol (an appropriate occasion simply doesn't come up for a while), and I simply can't recognize what you say about reduced tolerance and feeling better after a period of abstinence. I simply feel the same as always.

What you seem to be claiming is that we (who enjoy alcohol in moderation and on occasion) are lying to ourselves about how we feel.

In that case, if it truly wrecked the day after, you were drinking a lot more than just a couple of pints or some wine with dinner, and were probably in denial about it.

I can tell the difference, trust me. I've been there myself, and I still go there on occasion, in good company at a concert/festival, when I know I can waste a Saturday/Sunday after. A couple of pints will not do it.

That's not true. The more you drink the more you can drink. If you either gradually or cold turkey quit for a few months to reset, you would be amazed how less alcohol you would need to feel smashed. From my understanding it is basically training your liver and kidneys.

It is also quite funny: anesthesiologists always know who lies on the intake forms based on the answer to alcohol consumption question. The more the drink, the longer it takes to put them under.

Sure, you can build a tolerance, but "a few pints" or "wine with dinner" occasionally will not do it to any noticable degree.

That's not correct. The point is that with no tolerance for alcohol a few pints or a glass of wine with dinner can have an enormous effect for someone who in general eats very clean and does not drink/stopped drinking for a while.

It is a very observable thing in among the healthy living crowd: August and September are popular abstain from drinking months in these circles. Meeting these people for dinner in October pretty much means they would be visibly buzzed after a glass or two of wine.

Certainly not if you're talking a correctly-sized glass of wine, as you would get in a restaurant. A glass of wine does not mean "fill it to the edge".

What you're describing only happens on an empty stomach, which is a mistake anyone should be able to identify easily.

With all due respect as I do not know you what so ever, I suggest having a chat with one of the non-PC doctors. Real chat. Like "your time is valuable because you are really good at what you do. Like $500 an hour valueable... This is my lifestyle. Tell me what I'm doing wrong or pat me on a back if I'm doing it all right"