The $12 “Gongkai” Phone (2013) | Hacker News Reader

The $12 “Gongkai” Phone (2013)

bunniestudios.com

131 pointsmsvan43 comments

I'm less interested by the phone and more by the idea of "a unique innovation ecosystem evolved with little western influence, thanks to political, language, and cultural isolation." ... "gongkai isn’t a totally lawless free-for-all. It’s a network of ideas, spread peer-to-peer, with certain rules to enforce sharing and to prevent leeching. It’s very different from Western IP concepts, but I’m trying to have an open mind about it."

Any suggestions WRT other writing about this sphere?

>> "unique biological ecosystem evolved in the absence of continental species"

I think it's doing business based on informal interpersonal relationships, community, 'You scratch my back I'll scratch yours.'

It contrasts with Western BigCorpCo, sticklers for the letter of the law, insisting on long contracts, sue you into the ground etc etc.

Community before legal fetishism. I think it's the default modus operandi worldwide, it's the US/West that is unique. I don't say either system is superior.

I don't speak Chinese, so can't say for sure.

Edit: I reread the article, this part is interesting:

>> Of course, you can’t just call up Mediatek and buy these; and it’s extremely difficult to engage with them “going through the front door” to do a design. Don’t even bother; they won’t return your calls.

Maybe they want you to use one of their associated 'development support' companies, that have ads on Taobao? Sometimes these companies ask for large downpayments to get access to the SDKs/dev tools. Genuine question.

"Community before legal fetishism."

This "legal fetishism", otherwise known as the rule of law, is what allows business deals to be made between strangers instead of the traditional "community" limitation of having to share a friend in common who will vouch for you.

The main problem with the rule of law is having too little of it, when the traditional worldwide norm you speak of partially subverts it, and the powerful scratch each other's backs.

Good points.

I offer an example of "legal fetishism": my own brother insists I sign a 15-page contract in order that I help him out with a few hundred lines of code for an STM32.

That's a polite way of saying "I don't really want to do this, but if you perform some work first to demonstrate your commitment I will agree to help you"

I think you switched some actors roles. It's more like: "I want you to do this. But to show your commitment, I want you to do this other thing too. You're doing everything and I'm doing nothing."

I'm fascinated by it too. Though it does seem to conveniently ignore that this is probably made possible by stealing IP to get started.

Nevertheless, it's interesting to consider other mechanisms for technological evolution.

Infringe is a more suitable word for IP than steal, since nothing is physically taken. The real question (and the thing which should force self reflection on western ip laws) is if companies are incentivized to invest in developing new ip without laws to create monopolies for the new tech. Maybe open source software is a similar model (copyright vs patents).

You could physically steal plans, drawings, or documentation describing inventions or technology. Infringe isn’t necessarily the best term here when the technology in question isn’t necessarily covered by copyright, but likely a mixture of patents or trade secrets.

In these areas of, shall we say, ‘loose’ IP enforcement, I don’t think you’ve seen any instances of really transformational increases in technology, but rather incremental improvements. Evolution rather than revolution, if you will. I don’t think you’d see major changes without strong IP law enforcement. While there can be some rapid improvements in existing tech, with lax IP enforcement, how much new tech could you really expect? We’d end up stuck in a local minima.

Steal implies a loss of the physical good: if I steal your car, I get a car and you lose your car. If I steal your money you lose that quantity of cash. If I steal your idea... what have you lost? The opportunity to make money? But it's not like I took your idea and wiped the memory from your brain.

So steal I don't think is the right word.

As far as technology, software is relatively IP lax and innovative, which lets us mix and remix from a common knowledge pool. Imagine how much slower software development would be if we all had to pay royalties to knuth for using an if statement, royalties for using any encryption, or any algorithm which was, after all, non-obvious before it was invented.

I mean, certain Chinese companies have also been known to literally physically take blueprints and the like.

I didn't get the sense that the parent poster was referring to this specific case, rather a more general case of "copying information". The closest thing to steal in an information era would be "copy and then delete".

How does one steal IP?

Use BGP?

Made me chuckle

There's a more detailed discussion in his book, https://nostarch.com/hardwarehacker

From 2014: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8646781

Thanks! In turn, from 2013: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5703946

The downside this approach to IP that is community based as opposed to legalistic is the culture of hazing it comes with. To learn about this I recommend listening to “Business and Fucking in China” by Sinica.

https://m.soundcloud.com/chinafile/sinica-podcast-business-a...

Since this was 5 yrs ago, now there are regular phones that are similar if not a little more polished concepts.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Uniwa-AEKU-C6-Mobile-Phone-G...

I think this makes a lot of sense for some uses, kids, when you want to be tech-less.

ah, blast from the past! this has to be one of my top favorite HN submissions of all time, I recall 5 years ago when I first saw it posted here I was amazed. It'd be interesting to see a 2018 "Gonkai" phone.

If you search AliExpress for "mini phone" you'll find plenty. Looks like the price hasn't changed much:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-Ultra-Thin-AIEK-...

It's amusing to see some of them advertised as being "low radiation", presumably to appeal to the health quacks, but all that phrase connotes in my mind is "bad reception".

Edit: a look inside reveals not much has changed from the one in the article, only the casing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h8Ca-yzKuc

Have you used these? Any good for receiving and making phone calls?

I wouldn't trust the battery

According to the page, it even has a small fuselage.

Not a Gonkai phone, but you might be interested in the iPhone aftermarket engineering behind this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY5R-7dgbEA

I bought a slightly fancier one of these earlier this year, if I could get rid of the rancid boot sound it would be perfect. http://mos6581.com/pictures/vaio/nanophone.jpg

Does it do sms? How's the battery life? I might get one...

Yeah, it does SMS just fine. I had to charge it up every 2-3 days though and I'm not a heavy user at all. I call for the odd taxi a few times a week and that's it.

Be warned, it charges via its 3.5mm jack. It comes with two USB adapters for you to charge and read its internal storage.

Woah. Charging through the headphone jack? That's pretty weird (and cool).

The iPod shuffle did it:

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MC003AM/A/apple-ipod-shuf...

I used non-Apple headphones with one and ended up with a nice black scorch mark and broken iPod, I guess because a bit of sweat got in there.

Do you have a product link?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/itm/32816616368.html

That’s not the phone depicted in the article

It's the same processor and operating system.

A few weeks ago I tried to find the cheapest phone I could on amazon. I think it was $14, including shipping.

I can only assume the battery life and reception are terrible. It got bad reviews. But if you’re someone who burns through burner phones, or might do in a pinch.

Dunno if the US stock it. In the UK at least its a 2G GSM phone so in the US you are going to be stuck to T-mobile and only till 2020. But we can get the Nokia 105 for £14(~$19) delivered from Amazon. Its a nice little dumb phone with a decent battery life that faithful to the old Nokia UI/OS.

Its 2G is its biggest downside imo as it will only have a few years of life in it before network operators in the west start shutting down their 2G networks but if you are using it for a burner that might not be too much of an issue for the next couple of years.

In Europe you can buy a mobile phone on Amazon for about 10,- € where the battery lasts for about two weeks and making calls works well. The manufacturer is called Wiko. Very convenient for children who constantly lose their mobile phones...

Do you have any link?

I assume he is talking about the Wiko Lubi 5

Here for example on Amazon Germany

https://www.amazon.de/Wiko-Lubi5-Telefono-Movil-Blanco-wei%C...

Need an update for 2018...

there you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BlfAMitMf4

credit card phones. $15! wild.

Indeed!

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