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Comment by vikingcaffiene | Hacker News Reader

1) Apple has a pretty good privacy record so I'm more inclined to trust them on this one. Go ahead, light me up for saying that. :-)

2) No one I know ever calls me anymore. I am however getting 10 to 15 spam calls a day (one literally just came through as I was typing this up). Its so bad that I had to install a paid spam blocker and even that only catches 80% or so.

If Apple is looking for ways to deal with these jokers, I am all about it. This is getting ridiculous.

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I agree with you. FWIW, the article is talking about assigning each user a fraud score for iTunes purchases. I'm guessing it's so that people can't use new iTunes accounts to game apps, or to use in-app purchases to test stolen credit cards.

Having said that, Apple should definitely be more aggressive about blocking spam numbers. My perception is that it does absolutely nothing about them. Does Android do a better job here?

I've been pretty happy with the way Android is handling spammers. Not only it shows when a call is suspected to be spam, it also gives me the opportunity to flag a caller as such.

How is this configured? I've never seen an incoming call shown as possible spam.

In fact, when I tell Google Voice a number is spam, while it won't forward calls from that number anymore, it still forwards both calls and texts to Hangouts. The only way to prevent Hangouts from receiving known spam is to block the number, which is buried in the app. (I hate Hangouts, it has to be the best self-torture app ever.)

Edit: As I was typing this, I received notification on both my phone (Hangouts) and in my web browser (Hangouts) of a voicemail from a number previously marked as spam. "Our system is showing your local Google listing is currently not managed or has not been properly cleaned and verified ..." In Google Voice, this voicemail is in the Spam folder. And yet I received two notifications on my devices for it.

There is a setting on the Phone app just for Caller ID and Spam and you even have the ability to filter spam calls. I don't have Google Voice so I don't know if/how it works.

I worked for a company that scanned credit card transactions for fraudulent behavior and it was remarkable how reliable the correlation between stolen credit cards and iTunes purchases were. Identity thieves almost always tried to spend $0.99 as a test purchase and then hundreds or thousands of dollars of iTunes gift cards. Apple probably doesn't want to rely on the credit card companies to catch this if they can do it themselves.

The android phone app warns about suspected spam callers, and project fi has a spam filtering feature that has worked pretty well for me.

Apple should definitely be more aggressive about blocking spam numbers.

Apple does some work in this area. I know that occasionally I will get calls on my iPhones that have a line underneath reading "Possible spam" or something similar. But I think it's more of a carrier issue than a device manufacturer issue.

IIRC, there was a mention in one of the previous keynotes about spam prediction being available in China. I don't know if that's the same tech or not, but that's the only time I can remember Apple mentioning it.

Android does a much better job at this, and it baffles me why Apple doesn't. I get 5-10 spam calls every day on my iPhone, many of them early in the morning (I used to live on the east coast and am now on the west coast).

On my wife's phone, most spam calls are auto detected as "Spam Likely" and you can report new numbers as spam, which I presume Google uses to update its database of spam callers.

I suspect US regulations make it very hard to block incoming calls. I think it has to do with not blocking calls coming from another phone network.

This would be a big feature for me, whether spam blocking is done by the telephone companies or by Apple. I don't know why they aren't more aggressive about it either; it's not like the USPS, where the USPS makes more money off every piece of spam they deliver. Reducing spam calls would increase customer satisfaction, enhance the brand, and provide a competitive edge in the marketplace.

The telecos are basically hamstrung, they cannot legally refuse to route calls so far as I know. I'm not sure that allowing that is the best route, either. That's a whole set of neutrality concerns that we don't need.

They should absolutely be doing something to stop spoofing, though.

They can however refuse to do business with people call spoofing using sip trunks. They can see the real phone # and should be able to compare it to the allocated numbers and reject the rest. If a reseller is allowing it to happen then they should cut off the reseller until they get their shit in order.

My simple algorithm can easily be implemented by Apple, and made an optional configuration:

If the number is not in my contacts list I redirect it to voicemail.

If Apple gives me that I'm a happier consumer.

And most of the time, I also google the numbers that I don't recognize, and block them if they are known offenders/spammers.

I believe there is a way to do this, if you use Do Not Disturb and make an exception for All Contacts.

Interesting idea, but sometimes I do that when I sleep, so I would need that exception list to be small.

Not really, because then you can't get any notifications you actually do want. (Turning on DND blocks every notification.)

Apple refuses to make it so you can actually manage how the "phone" can bother you, and I'm assuming they have some sort of deal with the carriers to be this way.

I am however getting 10 to 15 spam calls a day

I recently bit the bullet on that and installed an app on my iPhone that blocks robo and spam calls. It's a subscription but considering how much productivity I loose due to spam calls I figure it's worth it. I had no idea Apple exposed an API that lets an app block calls but it works. Every once in a while a call slips through and I add it to their database. So far I've only missed one call I wanted and that was from Apple Developer Support. Apparently their auto-dialer is listed. Such is life.

I bet you we bought the same app. Its cut about 80% of em out. Not perfect but I'll take it.

I have just read an article that talks about TCPA law at https://www.lemberglaw.com/tcpa-compliance-telephone-consume.... It might be useful for you now. You might want to track down the callers and sue them in the future. :)

The simplest thing Apple could do is allow us to block any call (straight to voicemail) where the number does not appear in your contacts.

I don’t understand why they don’t have this option. They have options that are close, like do not disturb except for favorites in your contacts, but this is a sledgehammer, where we need something more general purpose.

You can put all of your contacts in group X, and then DnD, allowing through group X. It comes pretty close to what you want.

…actually, that's a good idea. Thanks for the tip!

But DnD is the entire device, it’s more than we need here. What you’ve mentioned is a workaround, but not ideal.

I want an option specific to the phone function.

...but then you get no notifications whatsoever, except for calls or texts from your contacts.

Maybe this is what some people want, but it's not for me.

In the UK, a service named TrueCall solved this problem very effectively for landlines. When you dial in, it checks the number from caller ID against a whitelist and if your number isn't pre-approved, you get prompted to press a number on the keypad and then say your name. The phone then rings (only if you actually pressed the number, which already stops most robo-dialler spam) and the caller is announced by name but has no opportunity to speak directly to the callee. If the callee approves, they can press a button and the call connects as normal (and optionally approves the number for coming straight through later). If the callee doesn't want to take the call, they push a different button and the caller gets to hear a prerecorded message and gets their number blocked.

This technology seems to come built into various mid-range landline phones now, and it has stopped almost 100% of junk calls since we last updated our equipment and got one of those, though it has occasionally confused legitimate callers as well and you do need to turn if off if you're genuinely expecting an automated call such as from your bank to validate something you're doing online. That's not much of a hassle though, and I don't see any reason something similar couldn't be done for mobile phones.

Google Voice had a feature like this years ago didn't it? Man I thought it was a nuisance then but I would use the heck out of it now.

With Apple focusing on creating new mainstream users (beginners) using their devices, there are likely far more users making calls with iPhone than not.

With how much MacBooks have increased their phoning home.. But having visibility, wish I could say the same for iPhone/iPad as easily.

Your point about spam calls is a good one. I'm not sure how many years you've had your number, or how many people had it before you. I have had my current mobile number a long time and the spam calls from me being on a list are minimal, minus voip robo-dialers. Spam callers seem to use easily changeable voip numbers (sometimes calling from similar voip numbers to my own), part of the spam call issue is likely to encourage the voip phone providers to pay attention to high usage/turnover numbers.

That sounds terrible. Have you considered changing your phone number? Putting up with constant bullshit calls would drive me insane. Heck, I'm at the point where I usually only answer the phone for known numbers, unless I'm expecting a call.

I've had the same phone number since my first mobile phone. I have so much crap tied to it that changing it isn't really an option.

Yeah, numbers of calls and emails being sent could be useful as features in fraud detection. I’m totally fine with Apple collecting that. Reliable spam filter for sms and phone calls are something I wanted for more than a decade.

> Apple has a pretty good privacy record

All companies have a good privacy record, until they don't

Which spam blocker did you use?

Hiya. They have a free option that is useless and a paid one that is less so.

I've tried Mr. Number but it's hit and miss. Also, not clear if it is actually a spam app. Ugh.

EDIT: Nvm, I reread your post. =) Mr. Number is owned by Hiya.

I hope they add an option to opt out of this.

???

Opt out of spam calls?

Or opt out of having them count the calls coming from your phone?

I think you should have to EPLICITLY opt IN to spam calls. I think Apple should block them by default. (ie - I think you should be AUTOMATICALLY opted out of spam calls.)

Opting out of them counting your calls should be allowed by Apple. Of course, I don't expect Apple to just take on all the fraud that goes along with that. For instance, they should be more than free to subject your mobile app store activity to extra scrutiny if you opt out. Potentially even blocking you from being able to take certain actions on the stores. Because it's obvious that all of the criminals and fraudsters will opt out.

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