Comment by jacobolus | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jacobolus | Hacker News Reader

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> Every single guy I have ever gushed at about how keen he is has, without fail, promptly turned into a psycho asshole monster and made me wish I never met him.

I have seen / heard of many guys getting complimented over the years (including myself a few times), and never heard of one of them turning into a “psycho”, “asshole”, or ”monster”. A couple times I saw a guy get complimented out of the blue and then kind of stammer something and hurry away looking embarrassed, because he didn’t have any idea how to respond. A couple times I have seen men brush off / refuse compliments it looked like because they wanted to seem modest (e.g. “oh it was really no big deal, please don’t think anything of it...” after someone had just directly said their action was very helpful/meaningful). Once I saw a guy get complimented and respond “yeah, everyone says the same thing”, which I admit is a pretty obnoxious response.

I have also heard plenty of stories of guys who were monsters (physical abusers, stalkers, spreaders of nasty rumors ...), but to my knowledge none of those came out of a compliment.

I believe you, but I’m having trouble imagining quite what happened. Maybe you can elaborate a bit? Do you mean that those men turned around and demanded something more from you? Stopped treating you with basic respect? Wouldn’t talk to you anymore? Chased you around? ...

> A couple times I have seen men brush off / refuse compliments it looked like because they wanted to seem modest

You make that sound like it's some kind of deliberate manipulation or something, some of us were just brought up with the idea that doing helpful things for people is expected and not really that big a deal, and it makes us uncomfortable when people make a big deal of it.

It's also actually socially very problematic to have praise heaped on you publicly. It makes other people jealous and causes lots of backlash.

The single most effective thing I have found for reducing forum drama is to mostly ignore any compliments. Saying "Thank you" is inevitably followed by multiple people feeling compelled to openly and publicly hate on me.

A way to avoid that dynamic could be to compliment only when no competitors to the receiver are around. A more direct solution would be to make sure those competitors all feel secure.

Sorry, that was not my intention. I agree that in many cases a modest “no big deal” or “it was nothing” is an appropriate response.

In the particular case I am thinking about the guy being complimented (probably unintentionally) hurt the other person’s feelings by basically rejecting the very sincere compliment, even though he could have easily said “I’m always happy to help” or something similarly impersonal and satisfied the complimenter without making anything bigger out of it. Or even used the same words he had but less dismissively. Tone of voice matters a lot in face-to-face communications.

My point was just that I wouldn’t consider even the most insensitive such responses to be “monstrous”, so I was wondering more specifically what Doreen Michele meant.

I don't want to get into a lot of details, but I will give one example.

I had an affair in my twenties with a man whose life could have been absolutely ruined because of it. He wasn't especially good looking, but he had beautiful blue eyes and I had a thing for blue eyes and told him how much I liked his blue eyes. We were not sleeping together at the time and it wasn't an unreasonable thing to say, given circumstances. This was a huge turning point in the relationship and he ended up nutcase levels of obsessed with me.

This man is the reason I did not use my first and last name online for many years -- because it is a fairly unique combination and I didn't want to be easily and readily found by him. Five years after I ditched him, he hired a fucking detective to track me down and called my house where I answered the goddamned phone in front of my children, like that isn't awkward as all hell.

No, he hadn't filed for divorce from his alcoholic wife. No, he hadn't left his incredibly conservative career. No, he absolutely was not in any position whatsoever to say "Oops, sorry. You can move in with me." if his phone call outed me to my husband and resulted in a divorce.

I'm not exaggerating when I say psycho asshole monster. It's only not been more of a debacle because avoiding drama is one of my skills, thankfully.

Sorry you had to go through such a shitty aftermath. That sounds terrifying.

It sounds like he took the compliment as a sign that you were really serious about him and the relationship, whereas you intended it just as a statement about his eyes.

The “nutcase levels of obsessed” part sounds like a pre-existing problem / part of this guy’s temperament, rather than a normal response to receiving compliments. The people I know who attracted stalkers didn’t so far as I know trigger them with any particular action.

Dunno, I’m not a psychologist. I would be interested to hear more about this kind of compliment-as-behavior-switch in other kinds of circumstances.

I think a key detail is he wasn't especially good looking and I complimented him on a physical trait. I've known lots of people over the years who had baggage over X and who made X into some big damn deal where it was impossible to say you liked them without it going weird places.

Short men do this a lot and make it impossible to say "Eh, your height doesn't bother me, but I like X about you."

Men who see themselves as ugly do this.

Men who are heavyset and hung up about it.

Etc ad nauseum.

At some point, my personal policy became "Sorry you have so much baggage. I'm not your goddamned therapist. I wouldn't touch you with a ten foot pole, not because you are short, but because, Oh. My. God. BTDT, got the t-shirt and life is too short for this shit, geez."

People paint themselves into a corner and make it impossible for other people to make X trait into a non issue. And then it becomes this hill to die on and god help you if you stupidly are oblivious and genuinely didn't think they were too short, too ugly or whatever.

>"Short men do this a lot and make it impossible to say "Eh, your height doesn't bother me, but I like X about you."

Men who see themselves as ugly do this."

Wait, you think telling someone, "Don't worry, your ugliness doesn't bother me. After all, you're friendly!" is a reasonable thing to say someone?

That's the exact opposite of making X trait a non-issue.

I think this is a response after they complained about their own height.

"oh man, why am I so short?" - "hey man, that doesnt bother me at all, you look great none the less"

More like you can't say "I like you" because all they talk about 24/7 is how no one will date someone their height. You would practically need to give a sworn affidavit that you didn't care. They don't let you avoid the issue by talking about anything else at all.

It becomes a case of "No one loves me because of my big hairy wart. Want to see my big hairy wart? Let me tell you how many hairs it has. I've actually named all the hairs. This grey one is called George. It's vastly uglier than the other hairs because it's grey..." Ad nauseum, making it absolutely impossible to go "My, what lovely hands you have. Gosh, that's a terrific jacket and it really goes well with your eyes. Want to have coffee sometime?"

They basically insist you love their wart upfront in a way that just makes the entire thing a non starter no matter how hard you try to avoid the topic of their wart and focus on other things. No, their wart is their entire dating identity and only someone with a wart fetish could possibly figure out how to work things out with them.

> "Don't worry, your ugliness doesn't bother me. After all, you're friendly!"

I had someone say pretty much this to me at work. It startled me but for some reason wasn't a problem. I've since noticed many successful, well-liked (rich, famous) people are quite ugly.

I know you deleted your other comment, but I'd still like to respond to one point about it. I hope that doesnt give you any troubles, if so, please mention it and I will delete my comment.

> He made it absolutely impossible to tell him I liked him without it going really terrible places.

I feel for him. I do have ADHD as well, and it is very hard for me to accept compliments. I was also bullied in school which I assume also plays into this. Everytime someone compliments me, I feel like I am getting set up for a joke. Raising your hopes, and then slashing them in the most hurtfull way possible. "Oh wait, you actually thought I like your eyes? lmao you're such an idiot"

But I do also agree that you're not his therapist, and that he probably should have talked to his therapist(which I assume he saw for his adhd) about it. I did. Its great.

Pro tip:

Go ahead and "take the bait." The assholes who are merely setting you up will out themselves as assholes and you can stop wondering. You can also not take it personally because they are assholes. They are telling you who they are, not who you are.

And then the non assholes will finally have a chance to connect with you in a genuine way without having to try to wrestle you to the ground and cram a compliment down your throat against your will. Because I assure you, healthy people won't do that. If you set your boundaries to "Fuck you and get the hell away from me" healthy people will stay the hell away. The only people who will try to get close will be people with serious issues and it becomes self fulfilling prophecy.

I'm not comfortable with compliments either. Most people are perfectly fine with being told that as an explanation for lack of ability to graciously accept a compliment and then they don't have to wonder if you think they did something wrong.

Anyway, I think I'm done here. Too many people seem to feel I need "advice" or whatever and I don't.

> You can also not take it personally

I cant. Malfunction of the executive functions make it pretty hard to relativize it. Initially I am gonna think, wow, thanks, I guess my eyes do suck, and so do I. Usually people would try to think about it again and be able to relativize it "wait, why did he say that? wow, what an asshole thing to say". But I get stuck in that "I guess you're right" feeling.

> Go ahead and "take the bait."

This is very hard to do, but I am working on it. Its not easy to overcome a childhood trauma though, and trust people again. It took me about half a year to finally open up to my therapist. Learning to trust again, and let yourself be vulnerable is terrible hard after learning for 10 years that its the wrong thing to do, you cant "just do it"

I didnt mean to give any unsolicited advice, apologies

I didn't mean you. You don't owe me an apology.

I know some things that might help, but I'm leery of posting them because that makes me the one giving unsolicited advice, a thing I'm already guilty of here.

Take care.

I'd be happy to hear it.

You too

I have two special needs sons and I've done all kinds of therapy and what not. So kind of randomly:

Nutritional supplements actually have a better track record than drugs for dealing with things like ADHD. If you can pinpoint the things that you need for your brain, you can see real improvement over time.

B vitamins, high quality salt, the right fats and certain minerals, like magnesium and calcium, are likely candidates. Start a journal. Try one and only one new thing at a time to see what it does. Don't buy multi vitamins. Get individual supplements and make sure they are bioavailable.

Mold problems at home, work or anyplace you spend a lot of time can have significant negative impact in mental function. Try to root out moisture issues and mold problems.

Start a private journal and deconstruct what people say to you, how you feel about it and why you feel that way. Most people aren't terribly nice. The veneer of civilized behavior tends to be pretty thin. It may be more them than you. You may find your reactions aren't as irrational as you think they are.

During my divorce, under circumstances where I didn't really care how things played out and a lot of men were chatting me up, I point blank asked men what they thought was attractive about me. This was incredibly eye opening because every one of them had a different answer. So my ideas about what made me attractive -- that it was X or Y specific thing -- were completely busted and it was a fantastic experience. People are attracted for reasons specific to them. It isn't really a case of "I have X trait and that is my main attraction."

So if you ever have an opportunity to participate in a workshop or similar where you can get feedback from a variety of people, you might be surprised what you learn about how the world sees you. It can be a wonderful antidote to the thoughts about yourself that dominate your self image.

Similarly, I did a series of self portraits in therapy and that was eye opening. Most people don't really have a clear idea of what they look like. Their idea of themselves is often something of a caricature that exaggerates specific traits and underplays others.

Best.

Oh wow. Helpful advice. I have ADHD and recently been taken off my medication abruptly because my BP was too high. I've been struggling without it.

I'll give your recommendations a try. Thank you! :)

> I point blank asked men what they thought was attractive about me ... every one of them had a different answer

> Most people don't really have a clear idea of what they look like

Wow! I had no idea about this, that's super interesting

What is high quality salt?

Not table salt.

The best is Celtic Sea Salt. After that is various other brands of sea salt, Himalayan salt, kosher salt, canning and pickling salt.

How are these other salts better for you than table salt?

Table salt has problematic additives. One of the additives is an anti-caking ingredient. It is the reason table salt pours easily. Other forms of salt tend to clump up.

Sea salt also has additional micronutrients. It isn't just sodium chloride.

Not necessarily a huge issue if you are perfectly healthy, but it makes a surprisingly large difference if there is anything wrong that intersects with these chemicals in some manner.

You know, that was one of the first things I thought too, having been on the other side of it. Compliments from women to men can be exceptionally rare, and when they do show up they can have a pretty profound impact. Of course, that perpetuates the cycle because women see that men overreact to simple compliments and are hesitant to give them. Compliments become more rare and... here we are.

I’m truly sorry for what you had to go through. That really sucks.

I get compliments from women all the time. Never on my appearance, but I think I'm handsome.

It's always something genuine like my art I post in social media or a cool shirt I happen to be wearing, or that I'm always genteel.

I think it depends on your culture of course but from my experience it's a weekly occurrence.

In case this thought hasn't arisen already : it is likely the reason you observe that all the men you become involved with are crazy assholes is that you're subconsciously selecting only that kind of man.

You had an affair and you still feel you can judge this guy. Whether that means you cheated on a contemporary partner, or simply that you enabled him to cheat on his "alcoholic wife," you objectively did something immoral, yet you feel no remorse, just rationalized butthurt that he didn't pick you.

> He wasn't especially good looking, but he had beautiful blue eyes and I had a thing for blue eyes and told him how much I liked his blue eyes.

These statements would set up massive, bar-you-from-the-industry-forever red flags on any man that dared express them.

just rationalized butthurt that he didn't pick you.

You might try reading things a little more carefully. I rejected him, then spent years arranging my life to avoid him. I'm absolutely not butthurt that we didn't end up together. More like "Dodged that bullet!!"

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