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Comment by Vivtek | Hacker News Reader

I've been using PayPal since 2001 when I signed up in order to send Sluggy Freelance a $5 donation. Since 2002 I've used it increasingly for payments from my freelancing customers - there was no other convenient way to get money from Europe to America, and PayPal revolutionized the translation industry (along with Moneybookers and similar services, but PayPal is the biggest).

Not once have I had any problem with them.

Jacques, I've had a bank - a real live regulated bank - deduct my paycheck instead of depositing it, and not notice until I complained. Granted, they fixed it immediately when I complained, and PayPal may not, but human error does occur. Certainly PayPal has never gratuitously deducted money from my account.

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Here's the thing though: when the bank made a mistake, you had recourse. You actually had someone to complain to - you could go to a branch or otherwise deal with a human. With paypal, you have no recourse, except to hope your case gets voted to the top of Reddit and some paypal insider takes pity on you.

There are several 'internet only' banks, or phone only banks. You have a similar amount of recourse with those.

you're overestimating the worth of that human- retail banks are generally franchisees, and they have very limited powers. If the problem has to be escalated, you're in the same place as you would be with Paypal, except BoA insiders don't read reddit.

The ability to go into a branch and refuse to leave until something is done is not a silver bullet, but it's something. If you happen to run in to 2 or three other unhappy customers with the same idea, it's even better.

You're with the wrong bank maybe. Once upon a time I overdrew my account by $10 and was charged $35 overdraw fee. My account balance became -$45. Someone sent me $50. I then withdrew another $50, and because the account balance was negative again, I was charged another -$35 and left with -$80. When I found out I was angry, I knew the rules were that if you overdrew your account you have to pay a fee, but it seemed ridiculous that they'd charge me twice when it only ever briefly went over 0 again. So I went to my local branch and asked one of the bank staff about it. They apologised and reversed not just the second overdraw fee but both as well! Quite happy with my bank that day; The rules were there and I knew them but they still refunded all my fees back.

I can't even imagine a Chase teller doing that, and I like the people at my bank.

It was the commmonwealth bank of australia.

I'm from the US, perhaps that's why we don't see eye to eye?

> Certainly PayPal has never gratuitously deducted money from my account.

I'm happy for you and hope that you will never be in my shoes.

Likewise. Sorry you're having troubles. I agree with the sentiments elsewhere in the thread, that you should take it up with the European banking authorities.

I think the whole thing will end up revolving around whether or not giving paypal access to your bank account gives them carte-blanche to remove and / or deposit money at their whim.

I would argue that they don't, that they need an explicit instruction from me to do so, they will probably argue that they don't need any permission at all, that the permission once granted stays granted until explicitly revoked.

I've been using PayPal regularly for over 10 years as well, as in, almost daily, for work. I, too, have never had a single problem. I have had occasion to call them for phone support in one instance where a PayPal debit card was stolen, and in another where there was an error in my account balance, as something was deducted twice. In both instances, they were very helpful and had the matters resolved in minutes.

I'm not discounting the problems other people hav ehad, just sharing my own experience with PayPal.

"Granted, they fixed it immediately when I complained, and PayPal may not"

That seems a rather large caveat.

I second that. I run my entire SaaS business through PayPal, dozens of transactions each day, and while I've had a few problems with large payments being flagged as "suspicious" they've not resulted in me losing any money (as far as I'm aware... ;-).

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