Disclosure of autism at work holds risks and benefits
spectrumnews.org
spectrumnews.org
I've noticed this as a common unfortunate side effect of disclosing anything that has a stigma attached and explains why the upper echelons of most pursuits (politics, business, sport) still tend to be quite homogenous. While a small but ever increasing spotlight is being shone on issues faced by various minorities in the workplace (particularly by race and gender), disabilities and disorders tend to be less obvious and people are less keen to talk about them.
I'm autistic myself and have shielded myself from a lot of these issues by running my own company and delegating things I'm weak at but I've been very lucky to reach that point and my employees are very patient with me.
More work needs to happen to make standard workplaces take advantage of the many skills autistic people can bring to companies but without putting a glass ceiling on where they can go. The tech industry, in particular, is ahead of the game on this, I believe, due to some common autistic traits actually being an advantage. Companies like Microsoft have also actively developed programs to engage with and hire autistic people: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2018/04/02/au...
That's just to say results may vary but I know there are multiple organizations that have come to do stuff at my university to set up job opportunities for those on the spectrum. They also function to inform students on the spectrum of the labour laws in Ontario and what that means in terms of helping people on the spectrum work as well as they can.
Or to ensure their perception as such. At least until they’re ensconced.
It depends. Autism is a spectrum, not a single condition. I have two children with autism, and they are different. The younger one is much more self-sufficient than the older one. Has it gotten easier? With the younger one? Yes. With the older one? No.
The reasons are many. Both are still in diapers at 8 and 9 (soon to be 10), though the 8-year-old is getting potty trained. We are hopeful. The older one will probably never be out of diapers. The older one is also fairly big for his age. He always has been. He's also strong, does not know his own strength, and almost the height of my wife. She cannot lift him. Luckily, he's an affectionate child, so usually he just wants hugs or to sit on laps and be tickled. We have a stroller for him so we can take him places as he has low-tone muscles. Both are a flight risk (though the younger one is better now). The older one would wander into the road without a care.
But it's hard. Really hard.
And as they get older, there will be less and less support. At some point, we will not be able to properly care for him. However, society for the most part ignores this (despite the US doing a very good job compared to other nations).
I love my children. I love that they are happy. They smile, they laugh, and that's all I want for them for their lives. Your priorities as a parent quickly changes when you learn this. Instead of hoping they have a good job and are successful, you reevaluate your hopes and aspirations for them and you. You realize that success isn't money or a startup, it's happiness. If my older child is happy for the rest of his life, how can I feel anything less than joy. I know people far more "successful" and far more "wealthy" and "doing what they love" and yet, they won't ever be as happy as my sons are.
But it's hard. It's just hard because everything is harder than it should be. Everything takes longer, everything requires compromise, and not everything is available to you.
The thing to remember is that my story is mine alone. Autism is a spectrum, and some will have it much easier. I love my two boys, and I would do anything for them, and all I want is for them to be happy.
But it's hard.
It's just harder than most can possibly imagine. When I look at her I see both my hopes and dreams from when I first held her still. The worst is seeing parents and neurotypical children together. I'm both happy for them but I get so envious. As time goes on too I'm finding my extended family invites us to less and less.
Other than that I'd suggest looking into health care in other western nations. I'm being vague because I don't know your particulars, but so far I've been quite impressed by the support provided in Europe for people on the spectrum. It's not ideal, but it's affordable and the quality seems alright so far.
If there's nothing in particular keeping you in one place, and if you can find work elsewhere, it could be worth exploring expat life if you have one or more autistic children. And it could be great for yourself too.
However, you make a good point, and yes, we have no fear of moving as needed. Whatever it takes.
He does have other health issues that make day to day life difficult in other ways, so I don't want to say everything's rosy. Still lots of hard work for my parents to manage.
EDIT: both the perception of being a drinker and actually being a drinker, obviously at different times in my life.
In an attempt to help with general anxiety that's associated with Aspergers, we introduced him to marijuana (as it has a relaxing effect), but that just mainly causes more anxiety.
However, it turns out that microdosing on psychedelics has been quite the panacea. I'd highly recommend reading the book "A Really Good Day" that goes over the safety aspects, myths and such.
In a span of 4 months, the kid is completely changed. Far more sociable. He's communicated that his anxiety is gone. He has become more thoughtful and far more self-sufficient. His ability to communicate/articulate his needs & desires, relay stories from his day are new behaviors that have presented himself since this regimen has started. In a sense, he has gone from "more autistic" to "more typical teenage/young adult boy" in a span of 4 months. He still does say that his condition is still apparent and that his ability to intuitively react to emotion/facial expressions/body language hasn't necessarily developed, but with the anxiety removed, now he can read body language cues with ease as he is not debilitated by the anxiety of the interaction and move forward in the interaction rather than recusing himself and living in his own bubble.
The reason this appears to work is because psychedelics increasing brain plasticity/neurogenesis. Even after the doses stop, the benefits will continue to remain as new neural connections have become established. A regimen can be used for say a month or two and be stopped with the benefits derived, so it's not something one necessarily needs to engage in for the rest of their life.
His immediate family doesn't know that this regimen is taking place, but everyone in the family during gatherings attributes his demeanor change to his "summer job" which "opened" him up, and are so "proud" of him and his growth. Of course, spending 12 years in a social school environment did nothing to open him up, but a 3 month summer job did the trick. chuckles
Of course there are stories of people who have taken very large tripping doses and have had catastrophic effects, so it isn't without risks, however, it appears that the risks are pretty minimal and also very manageable at microdose quantities.
So far in my microdose experiment, n=5 have had absolutely no ill effects and has been tremendous boon to mental state/cognition/clarity in general.
RE: cannabis. Most cannabis you buy is high in THC, which causes anxiety. You want the high CBD, low THC stuff. CBD has anti-anxiety properties and is actually relaxing, especially at high doses. As a bonus, it does not get one high. I also recommend a vaporizer pen or edibles instead of smoking.
EDIT: I feel anxiety is the worst of it. I can accept being 'weird', and my OCD-ish tendencies give me comfort. I mostly struggle with the anxiety, and weed has not been a good solution.
In my experience school districts are terrible at providing services. You want county level, private insurance or Medicaid. Also you want to be in a college town or near a college town because 90% of the line ABA therapists are college kids (supervised by a BCBA etc.. and up to a psyD etc... that helps staffing immensely. California has a 6 month wait at the regional center level for assessment, Minnesota has a SMRT wait of 60 days if I recall correctly but the bigger issue is ~6months to get into a center based program.
If moving is not an option another idea is to start a program. You are not alone and other parents will band together. For Texas it would fill a huge need.
EDIT:
Article discusses New Jersey and their well established system.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/new-autism-number...
Below link summarizes the laws/programs in states. Generally, the earlier insurance coverage was mandated the more providers a state now has.
http://www.easterseals.com/explore-resources/living-with-aut...
Remember, market can be irrational for longer than you can remain solvent.
Just to be clear, what you are describing is a world in which nobody could (or should) ever request or receive reasonable accommodations under the ADA.
If all you want is money to fuel the rest of your life then i think you are on point.
Personally i think life is to short/demanding, one needs to find an appropriate balance between work and personal life. I would rather have the people at work be friends than foes.
Sure, but for how many of us is that going to be a reality? You have to protect yourself, and the vast majority of people work for a paycheck because there is no other option.
In order for it to be a workplace, one needs not to be fired/let go/reorganized out of the workplace.
I don't want to bring my whole self to work, I don't want to identify with my job or my company or see myself as part of a tribe. As far as my job is concerned I just want to do good work. And so I really don't identify with this notion.
I would say that at this point, the relationship between employee and employer is generally rather adversarial. I accept the situation such as it is, but I don't relish that. I don't want to bring my whole self to that. I want to wall my real self off from that. I have a job because I need money to do the things I actually want to do. So in that sense, sure "all I want is money". That is a normal reaction to how things are.
While I think it is annoying to have Aspergers and be expected to act “normally,” I can see it would have many downsides for people to claim Aspergers status and bring this into regular office environments rather than develop coping strategies.
It takes very, very little time for normal people to come to understand that I am “weird” and that I don’t provide expected responses to normal interactions.
This year, my social weirdness has resulted in situations where I have gotten into fights with my coworkers who decided to attempt to bully me after they realized that I don’t have normal social skills.
Unfortunately, the only techniques I have at my disposal are to make it very, very costly for people to bully me. I don’t have the ability to come up with proper responses to nasty comments in real time. When people say things to me I don’t like, it takes me a long time to articulate to myself what the problem is and why it made me mad and by then it is too late - That person now thinks I am an easy target and persists in their behavior.
After reading and learning more about Aspergers I realize that this trait and many others are common. It was very helpful to learn from other people with this sort of condition and have developed coping strategies. I truly recommend doing a lot of research (not on the internet, I mean real books written by qualified people) if you suspect you have Aspergers.
I tend think about something someone said or did to me for several days and even months. I seethe.
Normal people tend to have situationally appropriate responses to small provocations, I develop anxiety about them.
I manage a team of people and get paid over $330,000 / year. The idea that I still act and feel this way is insane and so immature but that’s how my brain works.
I'm really struggling with politics at work right now so I know how you feel. I feel a lot of those same emotions.
Is there a book on coping strategies you would recommended?
Is it pretty common for this to happen?
I just got completely marginalized at my last workplace after they realized how socially inept I was and basically forced out the door. It also happened my job before that. Both were startups though.
Wondering if that's pretty common or if I just had bad workplaces?
Now don't take this the wrong way and think the world is against you and don't get bitter. These moments can be great moments to learn and grow up, and not every act that seems hostile is, or is at least deliberately so in full awareness of the perpetrator.
Like it or not, the onus is also on you to fix your shit, whatever that may be, and try to understand these situations and what behaviour on your part may contribute to landing in them.
I'm talking in general terms not knowing anyone's situation but mine.
A lot of is is me hiding in the booth, so I don't have to interact with people if I don't want to, but pre-show stuff ALWAYS requires me to interact with artists. Thankfully I can fake that part. Usually when I demonstrate competence at the task at hand they don't care about the rest.
Yes, but you have to disclose it in order for the ADA to apply in this case, and as the article explains, there are risks to disclosing as well.
[1] I don't have numbers, but greater than 50% wouldn't be surprising.
I think it's better not to say anything and, if you wrong someone because of your illness, maybe tell that person in private and apologise. Unfortunately doing that makes it sound like an excuse.
I'm not saying I have a better solution. Some people simply aren't apt for the real world. That's sad but it's the truth.
The same argument might have been made before women's suffrage, civil rights, laws around accessibility, etc.
Beyond physical laws, "the real world" is what we make it.
Mental illness doesn't mean "crazy person", there's a huge number of such cases, and half the population or more is affected by one or more (20% on any given year).
There's nothing insulting or damaging to call someone as mentally ill (except for types who think it means "crazy person" or some such).
In fact, there shouldn't be anything insulting or damaging about being bodily ill as well!
The bottom lime is that autism is associated with certain impairments that affect our mental states (on the spectrum, have a close relative with another mental illness). It's not some X-men like new state of being that people should aspire too, but it's something we should respect, try to heal if we can, and learn to live with and support.
Actually autism is officially described and classified in the DSM-5 Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of _Mental Disorders_.
The rest of ad hominem, I will ignore. For one, I find the language insulting to people with mental health issues (even if one considers autistic people to not be among them), as if they're lesser people.
E.g. "They are going to wonder if I am a danger to them, and in turn, that mentality is going to cause direct harm and danger to me and other people on the spectrum." -- because people with mental illnesses are necessarily of "danger" to others?
>They are going to wonder if I’m going to exhibit symptoms of mental illnesses since I am autistic.
Well, they will be right to wonder it.
Even for the mental illness issues that you would agree to qualify as such (from depression to OCD), are commonly associated with autism, much more so than in the general population.
If you want to call Autism a “mental disorder” you would be correct to call it that, as it is a neurodevelopmental disorder and cognitive disability. It is not however a mental illness. The DSM V classifies a lot of different disorders, some of which are mental illnesses and some of which are not. Conflating that something being defined in the DSM V also classifies it as a mental illness when the writers of the DSM V were very careful not to use that language, shows the very misunderstanding which I am trying very hard to show you (and failing) at best, and intentionally misleading on your part at worst.
My objections are due to the societal biases that others hold against mentally ill people. My problem with calling Autism a mental illness is twofold. 1. It is factually and scientifically incorrect. Full stop. End of story. This should be enough for you, but whatever. 2. When you call Autism a mental illness you take a group of people who struggle and suffer and loop them in with another group of people that struggle suffer. Autism has enough social stigma attached to it already. When you apply more social stigma to it by attaching other labels to it, you are actively causing more harm than good.
It would be one thing to offend based on a factual argument, but you have neither facts nor a moral/ethical argument on your side. There is no reason for one to call Autism a mental illness other than a factual misunderstanding of Autism. To cling to that ignorance and claim superiority is both arrogant and egotistical. It lacks any semblance of empathy whatsoever.
Also, "disorder" is a more neutral word than "illness". Strictly speaking, it just means something is abnormal, not necessarily dysfunctional.
It's not; there's actually a medical difference between "mental illness" and "disability".
I had to be taught that but outside of that, most people who didn't spend too much time with me then think I am smarter than average and are willing to rely on me for help with some stuff. I am proud because Asperger's is related to how one's brain is wired if I was embarrassed or considered Asperger's to be defective it would take a toll on my mental health because then I would be thinking of myself of a defective thing and defective things are usually thought of as something that should be thrown out.
And sometimes the inability to see that the objective world that exists is not the same objective world that we see. Due to how the brain interprets sensory information from the objective world.
An example taken from your own text:
The reason that you are not supposed to tell a fat person that they are fat is cause by saying you are fat you are essentially pointing to that persons irrational behavior(eating to much).
The fat person does not want to think about their own overweight, it will lead to them start thinking about their own irrationality. Something that will then cause them to feel that they are a failed person, causing negative emotions.
Reality can be analyzed in many dimensions.
Anyway, it appears to be only a matter of time until there is a "provable" test for autism. See, for example: https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s...
There are also observable (via fMRI) differences in the brains of people on the spectrum: http://time.com/3614487/fmri-autism-diagnosis/
Autism is the ADD/ADHD of the 'oughts. Overly diagnosed (come on, 1:55, really?), misunderstood (is the creepy guy who stares too much and never says anything a freak or is he autistic?), and often times used like a crutch by those who both want an easy out and/or don't want to take responsibility for their actions (oh, I have mild Aspberger syndrome and your offending me).
The notion of a "spectrum" is ludicrous too, how ever can we lump in someone who's a bit slow yet fully independent with someone like the above poster who's 8/10 year olds can't go potty on their own? This is a disservice to people on both ends of that "spectrum."
I'm confused by the juxtaposition of this statement and your preceding thoughts- it seems like quite a jump to say what seems to boil down to "Existing with mental illness at work and feeling like you have to hide it sucks" and then expand that to "People with mental illness aren't fit for the real world".
Who decides who gets to be classified as "apt for the real world"? There are a ton of depressed people out there, and for that matter, a ton of people who feel like they got screwed at birth for having the wrong color skin, the wrong sexual proclivities, the wrong family, etc. I think if you were to add up the people who feel like they've had to fight through a disadvantage, you'd find that they're the majority, not the minority of people in the real world.
In this case, regarding autism, it's called "spectrum" for a reason
Yes, it may be easy on HN to forget because we get a lot of "high functioning autists" here, but the word "autism" encomposses the 15-year old boy I met stuck in a wheelchair, whose only verbal communication is what I can only describe as a "bark" when something was not to his liking.
"Mental illnesses" do not top out at "a bit quirky". It is neither inaccurate nor insensitive to observe that some people are simply incapable of functioning in the real world. In fact holding the belief that there is no such thing can itself harm people by preventing them from getting the highly-invasive help they need.
That said, if we're talking about people who are in the workplace at all, we're not really talking about that set of people.
It's not physically incapacitating until you kill yourself which is the signal society sends you constantly.
It's pretty incapacitating.
My 5yo boy is officially diagnosed and he is really smart. My father was definitely autistic although never diagnosed.
I was lucky enough to have a false twin brother (11 months younger) that was the most popular guy at school while I was the weirdest (until I started emulating his behavior in social situations).
Today I believe my brain is just wired differently. Some of the most powerful structures in the brain (the GPUs) are devoted analyzing faces and reactions; in my case they are used for other purposes so I had to learn how to process faces using the CPU which is a bit tiresome but works well enough.
Some people do just fine, sleeping less. The issue is not listening to your body and waking when you don't want to.
I mean... the oddities that led him to be diagnosed included things like lack of eye contact and bizarre play habits. But, honestly, these are rather unimportant in the grand scheme of things, because the 'normies' were missing pretty fundamental, yet non-diagnosable, personality traits, such as ambition and conscientiousness
What society wants and signals to you constantly is for you to kill yourself because you're not worth anything.
It sucks to say the least.
Along with hyperfocus, a tendency toward honesty is another such trait. "But people without autism are sometimes honest, too" would be a comparable response.
I agree with the parent that you really want to think through the benefits of reporting a mental illness at work. How you will be treated depends on your employer, your boss, and the HR people involved in the discussion.
However as someone who struggles with a very real mental issue myself and has managed or worked with other people who do, please don't get discouraged like the parent poster seems to be. "apt for the real world" is not a static definition. If you struggle with mental illness, do your best to make the cost-benefit equation of employing you positive for your employer (and society). It won't be easy, but if you find an employer or line of work where you have the flexibility to create some guardrails around your mental illness in a way that allows you to create value, you will be surprised at what you can achieve.
20 years ago I was a failed engineering student who could barely pass most classes but did ok at and enjoyed practical coding. 15 years ago, after convincing a very good grad school that they should evaluate me on the basis of the actual code I had written and my GRE scores, not just my academics, I became a failed grad student who could barely pass many of my classes but enjoyed almost all of them and excelled at some. A decade ago, after dropping out from gradschool, getting fired from my first job as an engineer, and convincing a startup to hire me at less than market rate for a jack-of-all-trades sales-engineer type, I started doing ok and having a ball at work. Most of my colleagues would have told you I was a mediocre engineer, but I created enough value for the cost-benefit balance to be positive even if barely so. 5 years ago, after my painfully discovered role became a traditional desk job due to events outside my control, and I started failing again, I quit my job and started a business. My business has grown to several locations now. I still feel like a failure every day, because I fail at tasks most ordinary people would coast through. But giving myself time by being patient and persisting has allowed me to find a couple of things I am better at than most people and create an organization around me that makes up for my deficits enough to have a positive cost-benefit balance for the world.
Most people who work with me would tell you (and some tell me to my face) that I am simply not apt for the real world. And yet my business employs scores of people and serves a real need in multiple communities. I would have put the odds of this happening at close to zero at almost every point of time along my journey.
Accept yourself, but don't resign yourself to failure. If you fail, learn a little bit from that failure and change the next thing you try a little bit based on what you learn. Don't stop trying to create value for the world. You will find your niche. And, as that brilliant a*hole with evident mental issues said, don't expect this kind of clarity when you look towards the future, these dots only connect looking back after 5 or 10 years.
[1] cf "How to Fail at almost Everything and Still Win Big" by Scott Adams
Sure, but as civilized people and not savage beasts, we can accommodate them. In fact if we aren't already under some disability ourselves, we are still just an e.g. car accident away from being under one.
Perhaps you wear prescription glasses?
Asperger's Syndrome isn't considered a mental illness it's considered a neurodevelopmental disorder. There are many people who are neurotypical who due to circumstances will have trouble with handling interactions with the outside world I don't see why being on the spectrum should be considered something worse than being a person who drinks alcohol and then insults someone.
I mean, you show up drunk to work and insult people, you get fired - right? What's the analogy to someone on the autistic spectrum?
I dunno, I worked with a small number of people on the spectrum before and it wasn't like it required a lot of disclosure to get that.
After I was diagnosed and I invested some time into studying about autism, I realised that there is handful of colleges, who are most probably on the spectrum, but they have a really systematic approach on hiding shortcomings and using autistic traits to their advantage. Also I'm pretty sure I have collegues, who hide it so well, that nobody notices it at work.
Or if you require acute intensive care and you're going to need to utilize short term disability.