I wouldn't be so quick to blame changes in laws, though. In my experience, property crime is up because the police don't do anything when they get a report of a theft or burglary. If there's a fight, drug deal, or even just a drunk person stumbling around, the police will be out in force. If somebody got robbed, well, good luck, they'll take your statement and then you're on your own.
Now, perhaps that has to do with incentives and the police knowing that the offender isn't going to jail even if they pick him up for burglary. But it seems like there could still be a healthy middle ground where property crime offenses still result in fines, restitution, community service, and probation without needing to lock kids up in prison.
Are they rewarded for arresting drunk people?
So, the poor will be criminalized regardless of whether they steal, what’s their incentive not to steal? From their perspective, they’re already criminals for not being rich, why not act like it?
Add to that the fact that most plots of land were illegally seized and resold. So from a moral perspective the landowners in SF are criminals too.
The city needs to take those issues seriously before they can reasonably expect the poor to cease their mischief. Without a navigable legal framework for the poor to subsist, and without a property court committed to restitution of stolen land, I don’t see how we can in good faith demand people refrain from stealing iPhones.
http://www.ppic.org/publication/crime-trends-in-california/
In 2016 it looks like property crime actually decreased.
SF has the highest per capital property crime rate among the nation's top 50 cities: http://sfist.com/2016/04/25/sf_now_has_highest_per_capita_pr...
I don't know why police aren't responding to these calls, but it's not because those committing these crimes aren't going to face a (reasonable) punishment.
I think because for decades so many crimes were potential felonies that police and prosecutors used the misdemeanor/felony dividing line to systemize the allocation of resources--prosecute felonies, ignore misdemeanors. Most of these felonies were ultimately prosecuted as misdemeanors through plea arrangements, which shows another aspect of the system: heavy potential penalties made it easier to secure pleas, which reinforced reliance on felonies to filter prosecutions.
Now that penalties are actually fair, police and prosecutors need to change their habits. But they haven't, despite the fact that they'll openly admit they won't prosecute the exact same crimes they once did.
It's perverse and there's no excuse for it. Felonies may have made it easier to secure plea deals, but misdemeanors are easier to prosecute from a technical perspective[1] and because of the lower penalty easier to secure plea deals closer to the maximum sentence. It's an open question whether they're cheap enough, but nobody has yet even bothered to suggest it's not practical, let alone prove it or show that there aren't measures we could take to streamline enforcement.
[1] More safeguards in place to ensure fair trial when felonies are involved. Compare traffic court, where indigent aren't even guaranteed counsel. Indeed, counsel for indigent defendants is only required by the Federal constitution for potential sentences of 6 months or longer. First offense shoplifting kids could theoretically be swiftly prosecuted in the blink of an eye (especially given camera evidence), though in some states that may require changes in the law as defendant protections were often fashioned in the context of insane penalties for common offenses.
Although the police should have these statistics as well, since it is probably impossible to file a claim without a police report in hand.
There doesn't seem to be anything to support that idea.
It shouldn’t be shocking. The people who push this sort of feel-good legislation always, always, always fail to think about how these policies can be exploited or handwave away such concerns by assuming that the number of people who would do so is vanishingly small.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_47_(201...
Seattle has a similar policy. Property crimes are not enforced.
No, that wouldn't stop people stealing things for their own use, but it would hit the professional thieves hard.
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Fremont-Detectives-Bust-International-Theft-Ring-With-Millions-in-Stolen-Electronics-472047833.html
Perhaps local fences still matter a great deal, but it seems like they're becoming increasingly less important.Sounds like SF to me!
But dont worry when the economy goes South again the prison industry will be back with their promise to provide jobs.
The biggest thing seems to be preventing those administering the consequences from indulging in sadism, or exploiting those who they administer.
If the consequence for minor property damage(think public defecation, minor vandalism etc) a 2-4 hour shift cleaning the streets, potentially connects people with the consequences of their actions without becoming cruel
Making jail "cheaper for taxpayers" tends to mean things like more mandatory labour, more phone calls that cost $5 / min, etc. Trying to squeeze money out of inmates will only make them resent the system even more.
Make the punishment for shoplifting being tortured to death in a public square, and the cost of prison will go down. Sounds shocking to you? It used to be the standard in the Western world, until just a couple of centuries ago.
Over time, Europe has abolished the death penalty. They have the lowest murder rates in the history of civilization. In the US, there are wide variations between states for violent crime. Unsurprisingly, the states with the most draconian laws have the highest rates of crime.
I've concluded that violent punishment does not reduce violent crime.
Moreover, the violent crime rates for many parts of the US are no higher than in Europe. Coincidentally, those places tend to be the same states that have ended capital punishment.
Now, I'm not drawing a causal relationship between draconian punishment and an increase in crime. I'm just saying there's demonstrably no relationship between "tough on crime" harsh sentencing and a decrease in crime. Fear of violent retribution by the State is not what stops people from committing crimes. We have to look at other reasons.
I worked with lot of self help groups in California and learned that the cops and prosecutors would rather go after soft targets than real criminals. For example catching those kids stealing $1000 worth of stuff from store requires a cop to run after them fight with those kids (which sometimes might turn fatal). The cop would rather catch a normal kid in wrong place at wrong time because that kid will not fight back.
While compassionate criminal justice reform is needed I think we should also pay attention to the fact that law obedience does not wither away.
That sounds like a real problem to fix - incentivizing our law enforcement to go after "easy" targets does not create the sort of society I want to be in. I don't see how increasing sentences helps change this (if the sentences are being selectively applied anyway), and gun ownership is likewise orthogonal (shooting "easy" targets doesn't sound better, nor does encouraging vigilantism, which you did NOT suggest, but is a logical conclusion if law enforcement isn't doing their job).
Any ideas on how to improve the equal application of law enforcement?
i'm completely against locking them up and ruining their lives for what in most cases is just a [stupid] fun for them. We do know that the brain of teenager is biologically flawed to correctly estimate risks/consequences of things like that. Yet it is the duty of society to help correct the flaw and teach them a lesson. I think something like allowing store owners to shoot using salt charges (an old USSR method for situations like this, no serious injury, yet supposed to be very painful for a few days) will make these youngsters running much faster and laughing less :)
In more general - while corporal punishment is an unquestionably bad thing on its own, when it comes to the choice of corporal punishment vs. situation of 2nd graders already having a rap sheet, i'm not sure what is better for society long-term.
>Teenagers especially may be less responsive to consequentialist preventive measures (i.e. punishment), but they are responsive to some degree.
Exactly. The issue is that the more immediate/instant punishment works better for teenager mind than the chance of delayed/procedural/etc punishment. The immediate punishment is what helps the forming brain to develop cause/consequences machinery of behavior.