Comment by pornel | Hacker News Reader

Comment by pornel | Hacker News Reader

I've got AirPods and I'm sold. I'm not going back to wired headphones.

Apple has got proximity-based pairing nailed so well, it's easier than plugging a jack in. I can connect to other iPhones as easily as mine. Macs logged in to my iCloud don't need pairing at all. It works like it should, not like a typical Bluetooth crap.

The charging case is more convenient to carry than a bundle of wires. And of course I can walk around, zip my jacket, etc. without minding the wire.

It's more expensive, proprietary, it doesn't work well for some people. But I can definitely see why having AirPods Apple thought wired headphones are the next floppy drive.

I love my AirPods. I find them fairly comfortable and the audio quality is fine, perfect for podcasts (theory: the rise of AirPods and rise of podcasts are related).

However, AirPods don't require the removal of the headphone jack! The removal of the headphone jack is still so consumer hostile: it serves zero benefit to anyone apart from bluetooth accessory makers. If Apple really was serious about advancing bluetooth headphones, they would at least license the W1 for the pairing magic to other manufacturers.

Good Bluetooth headphones AND headphone jacks can exist at the same time! Anyone arguing for the removal of headphone jacks aren't grounded in any sort of reality tbh.

Agree, I love wireless audio and I've used decent bluetooth headphones on and off for a decade now. But that still makes the removal of the headphone jack a disaster and I miss it every day.

Apples user might have become accustomed to the dongle life but it is unbearable. Also, my non-standard dongle have started to glitch and buying a new one costs about 100x more than it is worth. Go figure.

It might have felt better if there was a reason for it. But no, there is absolutely no sane reason to ditch it other than forcing people to buy wireless peripherals. And that is just unacceptable. Too bad alternatives are running out.

This is all also under the assumption that bluetooth is good enough. It isn't.

This is also under the assumption that bluetooth is secure. It isn't.

> This is all also under the assumption that bluetooth is good enough. It isn't.

I don't think that's true. I don't think there's an inherit quality problem with Bluetooth, but it's just that bluetooth is an added cost, so manufacturers cost save on the audio components, or the headphones become expensive.

There are still incompatibility issues in practice.

And even still, you will get something that won't outlast the inbuilt batteries - which makes it absurd to spend money on them. I still use, on a daily basis, my $300 headphones that are a decade old. I can't find any bluetooth headphones fort $3-400 with NC that matches them. And they won't last a decade for sure (whereas my wired ones probably will last several).

> Anyone arguing for the removal of headphone jacks aren't grounded in any sort of reality tbh.

The problem is that there isn’t really a good argument to keep the headphone jack. It’s a redundant port because lightning/usbC and Bluetooth both handle audio. You would need a strong justification to keep it when you could use that space for other stuff in the phone.

No.

What disadvantages come from the removal of a ubiquitous headphone interconnect that's been on our devices for years? iPhone's have gotten thicker since the removal of the headphone jack. Apple's made iPods much thinner than any of the iPhones, and they all had headphone jacks.

There's no problem. It's not redundant if you want to charge your phone and listen to audio at the same time - I have those Bose headphones noice cancelling headphones that everyone travels with. To use them, I need to carry around an adapter which is a pain. When I fly, I have to choose whether to charge my phone or listen to audio.

Look, I love my iPhone X, but I've gotten absolutely nothing out of losing the headphone jack. It's only come at costs.

..although Apple did not use the space for anything else when they removed it from the iPhone 7.

Whats the evidence? Scotty from strange parts actually managed to add a working headphone jack back to the iPhone, in the exact spot where it had been removed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utfbE3_uAMA

Did you miss the part of the video where he had to cut out parts of the iPhone to get the space needed?

He cut out one piece of plastic relating to barometric pressure, and moved the taptic engine a bit. And all of this was on the 7, so Apple surely had space for a headphone jack on the 7+, right?

Maybe wired headphones are going the way of the DVD drive. But at this point, the change has felt very user-hostile. If they cared about their customers, iPhones would support USB-C and wired headphones.

> so Apple surely had space for a headphone jack on the 7+, right

That’s easily answerable by heading over to iFixIt. You’ll see the Plus models are near identical to the non-Plus in available space, just the Plus has a bigger battery and even more circuitry (do to the dual camera). Apple doesn’t waste any space inside their devices typically.

Technically, even though Lightning does handle audio, the dongle contains its own DAC, so that functionality remains unused.

>However, AirPods don't require the removal of the headphone jack! The removal of the headphone jack is still so consumer hostile

This is key. When they removed the disc drive in the macbooks there was a decent argument to be made about more space for other ports (or reduced thickness). But the 3.5 mm headphone jack is literally... 3.5 mm, right? Another commentor even pointed out that the new iphones are thicker than the 6 line. I just dont ubderstand the argument here.

I find AirPods to be a disappointing product.

The pairing isn’t great IMO. So many calls take a minute to figure out AirPod connectivity issues. It’s frustrating switching airpods between a Mac and iPhone. Much of the time only left or right pair, and the only way to fix it is to put them back in the case and re-pair them. Sadly it doesn’t “just work”

Another common problem is the mics tend to rust out after about a year of usage, eventually breaking down. This happens if you use them for any exercise (which apple advertises them for) with sweat rusting the mesh on the bottom.

Eventually I switched back to a manual headphone cable with a mic built in. It always works...

The switching between iOS and Mac is indeed buggy. macOS also lacks system-wide support for airplay 2. I think they must be dealing with legacy code and/or support that needs modernized. Switching between iOS and iPad with AirPods doesn’t give people issues, so I don’t think it’s a problem with AirPod hardware or iOS.

Rhe sweat problem is interesting! I haven’t experienced this degradation, but I think my head’s sweat mostly runs off my nose. Is it because of how your hair is styled?

To be fair I wore them 2-3 times a week running. Sweat definitely roles off my ears onto the airpods. I bet sweat is particularly corrosive. The Apple store tried to brush off the rust and it worked a little better, but not consistently.

I would recommend buying cheap exercise headphones instead of using airpods.

I also sometimes prefer having the over ear headphones for some sound cancelation. You can buy reasonable headphones plus a mic-in cable for less than $50.

None of that requires there to be no jack. Im on the phone for hours at a time, need my hands and speaker isn't an option. Batteries are a real concern and getting a backup pair would be expensive.

AirPods warn you when they're low (it requires a considerable amount of time in-ear to get them low, about 4+ hours), then if you pop them in the case for 5 minutes, you get 45 minutes of play time.

Battery life is rarely a concern for me, and I wear my AirPods almost constantly. I even sometimes sleep with them.

>it requires a considerable amount of time in-ear to get them low, about 4+ hours

He he, I won't call that a long time, I would be OK with them if you don't need to recharge them for a week.

That is 4+ hours in-ear. What usually happens is that someone wants to talk to you throughout your day, and you put them in the case for 5-10 mins and you gain an hour. Or you eat lunch with co-workers and they go in the case for a bit. Then, after work, when the battery is dying, you need to take a shower, so you put them in the case for like 20 minutes and you have enough charge for the rest of the day; then you go to bed and they fully charge over night.

I charge my case about once a week.

Won't work for me at all, I have my headphones on for hours at a time. What makes it worse is that you could have your wireless ones and someone like me his wired ones.

Apple decided rightly or not that they don't care about me. So be it.

if its that important of a part of your life, buy two pairs of wireless headphones. but given the ridiculously fast charge time of airpods, why worry? otherwise, I hope apple keeps tailoring the products to the normal use cases and not making weird compromises for pro audio users and those with extremely high usage times. that's speaking as a shareholder anyway...

> Apple decided rightly or not that they don't care about me.

If you’re view is that every product should cater to the needs of everyone, then yep, Apple shouldn’t care about you as you are being unrealistic.

You get wired headphones and a dongle in the box, you can buy Beats headphones with the same chip as the Airpods with longer battery life for about the same price, or you can use a vast ocean of other wired or Bluetooth headphones. It’s not like you are forced to use something that doesn’t work for your needs.

Most people can find a few minutes during the day to take off their headphones. Don’t you ever go to the bathroom or say hi to a coworker?

You do know that there are other headphones available with the same W1 chip, don't you?

Beats do an over ear set that has 40 hours of battery life ... I don't think you'll be running into issues with that.

The trick for the AirPods is duty cycling such that there is no down time. You put one in the case when the tone sounds, put it pack in your ear a few minutes later, and then charge the other one. You can be on a single call all day.

I loved everything about the AirPods except that they have no noise reduction. The New York City subway is loud as hell. Street noise is loud as hell. Even when not wearing headphones I wear earplugs to block out all the noise.

The BeatsX are earplug type headphones that do decent sound isolation. They’re not as snazzy as the AirPods and they have some minor UX frustrations, but for the most part have been pretty good.

The Shure ones are great. Standard Bluetooth issues, but, good sound quality and great passive noise isolation.

I'm in the same boat. I replaced the BeatsX tips with some 3rd party foamies and they do a pretty good job of damping external noise.

I don't recommend the PowerBeats though. No matter what sort of tips you use, they mute almost nothing. Also, the slightest breeze causes tons of wind noise.

I don't understand the appeal at all of headphones with no noise reduction. How does anyone use them in a noisy environment without setting the volume uncomfortably high?

> How does anyone use them in a noisy environment without setting the volume uncomfortably high?

This is a large part of why doctors are starting to warn of an epidemic of hearing loss. Headphones with poor noise isolation tend to encourage people to crank the volume way too high.

a) Noise reduction usually requires a powered component, or some kind of neck brace to contain the battery required for active noise cancelling. This adds expense and weight.

b) Sometimes it's good to be aware of your surroundings! When I'm listening to music, noise is usually sufficiently blocked by the sheer volume of the track, and during podcasts and audiobooks I'm also not bothered by the sounds of the streets.

If anything, it's good to hear a siren, or the ramblings of a nearby crazy person in order to avoid them.

The only time I find noise cancellation useful is on airplanes.

Man, I really find myself on the opposite end of the spectrum here. The only thing I love about my airports is the charging case. Size wise it's great.

However, airpods are uncomfortable, always feel like they're going to fall out. I've already had to replace one of them because they're easily lost. The sound quality is so-so. I have to crank the volume way up because there isn't any kind of noise isolation, much less noise cancellation.

All around they're a very very average product offering.

this is not my experience. my MacBook often refuses to connect to my airpods. rebooting usually fixes it. sometimes I have to re-pair. then I also can't use them with other devices.

they also cut out quite often probably because I live in a crowded downtown area.

when they work I mostly like them but sadly for me they don't always work.

Can you replace the battery in your airpods? No? So you mean you're literally buying something to throw away every 5 years or so? How environmentally friendly, but I'm sure Apple is glad you've decided to make paying them a regular part of your life. Nothing about removing the headphone jacks had a point other than to increase profits. The phones are thicker, waterproof phones have headphone jacks, they parts are cheap, the next big thing isn't really a drop in replacement or better yet.

Same experience here, don't think I'll ever be able to go back to wired headphones. Especially in the gym / when running, the AirPods are amazing, they fit perfectly (unlike a lot of other headphones), never run out of battery and connect instantly to my devices.

I believe Apple made the right move, many other manufacturers are already following, bluetooth headphones are getting cheaper and quality is getting better.

Not sure I understand - wired headphones are much cheaper to manufacture, are inherently higher quality (they'll always have less loss and less latency), can fit just as well, don't have batteries to begin with, and are much easier to connect to devices. The only point that makes any sense to me is that wireless headphones are better for exercise, but why would Apple remove the audio jack just to indirectly improve the state of wireless audio for when people exercise?

One answer might simply be the fact that Tim Cook himself is a huge exercise geek, and not the supporter of the arts and artists that Steve Jobs was.

This is just my opinion, but I believe that the whole notion of being more futuristic is also being fully wireless. And partially removing the headphone jack is just part of the move to a full wireless future.

Someone just had to be the first to introduce it to the mainstream, I’m fairly certain that it will be widely accepted in a few years.

I lived in that wireless future for a while and it sucked. Incessant connectivity issues, compatibility problems, irritatingly high latency, and the never-ending hassle of keeping all those batteries charged. I've abandoned it and gone back to wires for everything - keyboard, mouse, headphones, car stereo, kitchen stereo, phone headset, all of it. So much simpler; everything just works, all the time.

Well Airpods work perfectly well with my Galaxy S8. You don't need Apple phones to use them.

And my S8 also has 3.5mm jack for when my 2 hour calls exhaust the airpods battery or when I want to push a drum track from my phone synth to a speaker :-)

I considered airpods with my s9. In the end, lightning charging was why I didn't. I dont want 3 kinds of chargers.

It's just an extra USB cable. Charges perfectly well with Samsung's charger

On point

Reply on news.ycombinator.com