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Comment by VK538FY | Hacker News Reader

Are you referring to the bulldozer effect of English against other major languages?

If so, I'd say that English and Occitan (for example) are not in the same league, therefore not competitors. For example, no school pupil will choose to do part of his schooling in Occitan unless he lives in that region and even then it doesn't really replace a 'real' foreign language -- you need to learn one of those anyway. (Right?) But in Europe, when one decides between English and another major European language, the easiest answer is not always the best answer. And the easy answer demonstrates the bulldozer effect of English.

(I'm not a fan of English BTW. I use it when it's useful to me, like any other. Others have proven themselves far more useful to me at times. Just not when I read Hacker News!)

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A couple of European countries offer the option to learn two foreign languages during school.

So usually the most sought combinations are English and French, German or Spanish, which already covers our internal travel needs quite well.

Then a couple of Erasmus and the language knowledge can be ramped up to a few other European languages.

Not just a couple, but many European countries offer two or more foreign languages. (The level of success varies wildly of course.)

The configuration is even more complicated in French schools where there is the optional immersion in the regional language. That immersion generally begins at the earliest ages. But my point was that this regional language in no way limits the choice of the first foreign language later on. Therefore: I don't believe that Occitan is in any way menaced by English, but English may be chosen over other European languages later in one's scolarity.

As an aside, I don't quite agree with your statement that the foreign languages offered cover your travel needs. Well, that may be true, but I don't think that the most important element is mobility for travel, but rather mobility for employment and trade, especially in border regions. And I can name a LOT of countries where proficiency in the neighbour's language is severely lacking. Neighbours that are sometimes just a kilometre away. I've seen it myself.

Well it depends how open people are to learn other languages.

More than once I had to speak English in the Flemish area in Belgium, because the person I was speaking to never bothered to keep their French up to date.

Likewise I happen to speak better French and German than some Swiss German and Romande friends of mine. It is ironic to watch them speak in English among themselves, which isn't an official national language.

So mindset matters as well.

We agree: it depends on the willingness of people to learn. I'm just saying to myself that it's pretty stupid not to want to learn the language of one's immediate neighbours, especially when it can eliminate spells of unemployment or double or triple one's salary.

I had heard of the Belgian example and am all too aware of Romands and Allemanics speaking English with each other because most don't care to learn another official language enough to do business in it. A couple of other examples that I've seen...

- Basel, CH: the German speaking Baslers are litterally glued to a now essentially francophone French city. Every one that I've met speaks better English than French. Of course it's clear that they have little economic motivation to do so.

- Wrocław, PL: many of the graduates of that city's fine universities may end up working in Germany (which is about 100 km away) but almost none of them come out of high school or university speaking fluent German. The system even discourages it, maybe because Wrocław (Breslau) was previously in Germany.

I was given a choice between Ancient Greek and (modern) English...

If you're Greek, that _might_ be a dilemma, I suppose. :-)

I'm not Greek... It was tempting, having studied Latin for a few years prior. I made the final decision based on a strong desire to understand the lyrics of Pink Floyd albums.

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