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Comment by joshuak | Hacker News Reader

Personally I detest people who interact with others in a programatic way. Not perhaps the people themselves, but this kind of behavior. I feel compelled to snap my fingers in their face and say "WAKEUP! We're right here talking, stop performing!"

Please, please, please stop trying to be pleasing to other people. Just relax and be yourself. Performed, goal oriented, behavior at parties is hugely off-putting to me and most people I know (although I don't live in New York, so ymmv).

You may say something that's upsetting to someone, or is brilliantly insightful, or in retrospect obviously silly. So fucking what!? IT'S A PARTY, not a convention. It's this kind of attitude that there is a "right" way to be social that contributes to social anxiety. Fucking stop it!

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> You may say something that's upsetting to someone, or is brilliantly insightful, or in retrospect obviously silly. So fucking what!?

It seems like you mean well, but as a person with generalized anxiety disorder, telling someone who is anxious about parties that they shouldn't be anxious about parties probably isn't going to be very helpful.

> Personally I detest people who interact with others in a programatic way. Not perhaps the people themselves, but this kind of behavior. I feel compelled to snap my fingers in their face and say "WAKEUP! We're right here talking, stop performing!"

If a person who is anxious about parties tries to socialize at a party using some sort of system in order to reduce their anxiety, and you call them out for how they are socializing, that person is now going to be more anxious at parties.

You seem like a person who isn't anxious about social situations, which is good, but understand that some people are anxious about social situations, and articles like these can possibly help those people.

Telling people you have an anxiety disorder is exactly the kind of genuineness that is preferred by most people (in my experience), over ticking off boxes in a proscribed social interaction check list, or having a performative affect.

I did not say, and would not say, that you should not feel the way you feel. Advice on how not to behave does not speak to how one feels.

My advice does not apply to you if you have a disorder that requires you to handle social situations in a particular way. However, you should be aware that regardless of the reason why you must not be genuine in social situations you will be perceived as disingenuous.

On the other hand for those without a disorder, if you can tolerate being genuine or at least not intentionally fake about yourself and your interests you will have a better chance to connect with people.

> You seem like a person who isn't anxious about social situations...

You'd be right that I seem that way, you'd be wrong that I am that way.

What said is kind of a catch 22. The one thing a person with social anxiety would be reluctant to talk about is their social anxiety, the lack of talking of which further worsens the anxiety.

I used to be an extrovert/ good at social interactions when in my country, but have found it very difficult to replicate my social interactions in the US.

I break social relationships into 4 kinds. Acquaintances , close acquaintances , friends and best buddies. Each have very well defined boundaries. Having a pool of predefined things to talk about has made making acquaintances significantly easier in the US. Not having a rule set for interaction makes the options too wide, and causes a type of decision paralysis.

I still struggle with converting those to close acquantinces and friends, but I am getting better. And I am one of the good ones. Most people from my country only hang around people of their nationality because of being unable to make basic acquaintances with people. These people aren't socially awkward, just completely confused in a system with foreign rules for interaction.

I went on a tangent here, but I am sure there is a point in there somewhere.

>interact with others in a programatic way.

Yes, there's something demonic about intentionally rule-based behaviour.

>It's this kind of attitude that there is a "right" way to be social that contributes to social anxiety. Fucking stop it!

Here's the problem. You're claiming both that it's wrong to interact like this and that there's no right or wrong in social interaction.

I am not giving you a prescription for how to be liked. In fact I can assure you that some people will like you and some will not.

I'm saying that though failure is unavoidable, a performance of social correctness is more failure prone then being genuine.

Isn't that assuming that people can't be genuinely unconscious/robotic? Can't we allow them to be so?

>Just relax and be yourself

nah. socializing is performing by necessity.

"being myself" would entail picking apart people when they say silly/ignorant things regarding religion, science, etc. it'd be interrupting people and explaining how their favorite TV shows are full of holes. how their prattle about celebrities speaks to the emptiness of their heads. it'd be playing the devil's advocate when nobody is looking for a balanced discussion. it'd be going on long monologues on various topics. these are not endearing traits to have. i know that i wouldn't want to be around such a person for long.

maybe this is why social interactions can't be relaxing for some people. once you know that being yourself and "relaxing" is extremely grating on other people, you know to keep it tightly under wraps, which circumvents any relaxation in social situations.

You are correct, but conflating two issues. The issue at hand is goal oriented social behavior, which is one end of a spectrum. At the other end of the spectrum is what you accurately describe, differentiating private and public self.

Another helpful tip along these lines is don't arrive at parties nude

...well at least not unless that is explicitly required.

> picking apart people when they say silly/ignorant things

That may be a good thing.

Most people would feel discomfort [from your attempt to pick them apart]. In this case you would learn not to speak with them.

Some other people would enjoy thoughtful discussion with you. These would be your new friends.

But if you try to put your polite mask on - it would be hard for you to find new friends, even if there are matching people at that party.

His point was that he is making effort not to be dick over unimportant matters to people who don't enjoy that. Because all in all, what he described was not looking for throughtfull discussion and it seemed to be intentionally so.

I for one, appreciate effort and am willing to reciprocate. If he don't explain me why my favorite shows are dumb, I will not insult his shows.

You also assume that people who take others apart don't mind the same being done to them. In my experience, they typically like to pick apart others, but can't handle being picked apart.

> In my experience, they typically like to pick apart others, but can't handle being picked apart.

Yes. cryoshon even states in his post that he wouldn't want to be around a person like himself. So he's only allowed to interact with masochists who like being constantly criticized while never criticizing back, because anything else would be "fake"?

> they typically like to pick apart others, but can't handle being picked apart

Such people are not competent to pick apart others, because they did not polish their criticism against the feedback they receive.

I, personally, like both: find mistakes in other people mental models and people finding mistakes in my mental models.

> i know that i wouldn't want to be around such a person for long.

I dunno. I don't mind picking apart holes in a show or two (I watch a bunch of shows and most of them are full of silly holes, that's par for the course) and having some balanced discussion. Long monologues though are probably not good at parties, and definitely no celebrity talk.

> Just relax and be yourself.

For a lot of people, having a script allows them to relax and be themselves. I don't see whats wrong with them interacting the way they want to interact, rather than the way you want them to.

I don't think this takes into account how helpful an action plan can be.

I would never, ever go to a gathering without forthought, self coaching, and some tips for myself lined up. There's way too much social pressure and too much of my self-esteem on the line to skip it.

And if I'm not afforded that, or it's a surprise, I'll just go to wherever with my laptop and browse HN or work on my projects instead.

People are really, really hard, especially for us with social anxiety.

"There's no right or wrong way to party...just be yourself!"

"There's no right or wrong way to dance...just be yourself!"

"There's no right or wrong way to paint...just be yourself!"

"There's no right or wrong way to play the drums...just be yourself!"

I don't buy it.

If a thing can be done at all, it can be done better or worse. Even if my perception is the only thing that matters, things can still be done better or worse by the yardstick.

> Please, please, please stop trying to be pleasing to other people.

It's not just about pleasing other people. It's about pleasing myself. And I'm pleased when I have a good relationship and a good conversation.

> Just relax and be yourself.

Advice typically given to people whose "selves" are naturally anxious, i.e. the opposite of relaxed. Being able to follow an outline can make such people considerable more relaxed.

You've described quite well your weakness in social situations. Have you sought help for it?

(My comment is neither a joke nor sarcasm).

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