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Comment by remlov | Hacker News Reader

I agree with you there. For the general population, be it family, grandma, or individuals that tend to operate outside the mindset of the general audience here, the learning curve is going to be a bit steeper if you were to put Ubuntu in front of them. However, every one of their newer releases has made strides in terms of ease of use and stability. Personally I think https://snapcraft.io/ lifts a HUGE burden off making popular software available to a non power user who might be new to linux.

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I couldn't disagree more. Linux is fine for the kind of people who only use computers to consume content, but then again any personal web kiosk (like a phone or tablet) can easily serve that role so it isn't exactly a high bar.

The real problem areas are when people who want a personal computer try to color outside the lines of whatever the distro developer intended as a use case ("Why would you want to do that?" is a common and annoying response).

> "Why would you want to do that?"

I don't remember a Linus Torvalds say "you're not supposed to hold it this way" to anyone. Instead, …

Unless you want a stable infrastructure to keep binary drivers compatible with newer versions of Linux....

He would probably use a lot more profanity.

Right, except my Windows 98 drivers don't work with Windows 10 either... What's the point?

The point is that your Windows 10 drivers from a year ago still work with the Windows 10 update you did today. This is not true of Linux driver binaries.

Yes, but that's also the reason why Linux has as much hardware support out of the box: because it forces drivers to be developed in-tree.

Windows doesn’t actually come with a dirth of drivers out of the box and it keeps backward compatibility with drivers longer.

I'm okay with directing "why would you want to do that?" at people that want to deliver binary drivers to their customers, since that makes them a lot harder to fix later.

But unless it's a gnome dev speaking, I don't think it's something commonly aimed at users.

> Linux is fine for the kind of people who only use computers to consume content

Consuming content these days often involves DRM, which rarely works on Linux. For example, if the context is books, good luck dealing with Adobe or Amazon DRM to read them on your Linux desktop (you can strip it, but it's a lot more technical than just clicking and opening it on Windows or Mac).

Or how about music? How do you sync your iPhone with your Linux desktop?

Consuming content consists of either connecting to services like Hulu Spotify Netflix Pandora or opening your favorite pirate site and downloading torrents to be consumed in any multimedia app.

Both strategies work fine under linux. Did you not know that Netflix and Hulu work on linux just fine?

Regarding iPhones I would imagine most people who run linux on the desktop just don't bother buying them. Did you know that Apple's global marketshare is only about 15%? More people actually buy just Samsung's android phones than iphones.

This is cherry picking. Yes, there are some services that work on Linux. There are many other popular services that do not, and I even gave specific examples.

Most people who run Linux on the desktop probably won't use iPhones, yeah. Which is because they're computer geeks. Which is to say, not the "kind of people who only use computers to consume content" at all.

In US, iOS market share is about 45% as of 2018. Globally, it's 20% (15% is counting smartphones only and ignoring tablets).

You admit that globally 4/5 people don't use iphones which means that most people don't have any need for itunes.

Which services don't work on linux other than itunes?

I literally spelled it out in my initial comment.

> For example, if the context is books, good luck dealing with Adobe or Amazon DRM to read them on your Linux desktop

You can read amazon drm encumbered books with amazon cloud reader. You can run adobe digital editions via wine.

You can also read your ebooks on your nook, kindle, or tablet which would probably actually be a better experience.

You can buy dead tree books.

You can buy non drm encumbered books.

You can buy dead tree books and then go and download a digital version of the same work from library genesis knowing that you have supported the author but not drm. Then you can read on whatever device you like.

If you are poor you can skip the first step and just read the books.

Your local library still exists and is positively full of books.

Many libraries provide free access to technology books via Safari Books.

The claim that you can't enjoy books without windows is a curious claim when so many options exist.

> Which is because they're computer geeks.

I'm not sure that's necessarily the reason to choose Android over iOS. Many use Linux on desktop because it is good enough or better than other choices, but might be ambivalent towards or disapproving of stock android. Android has its flaws and is far from being strictly better than iOS.

"The real problem areas are when people who want a personal computer try to color outside the lines of whatever the distro developer intended as a use case ("Why would you want to do that?" is a common and annoying response)."

Pick something other than gnome?

to be honest, put grandma in a XFCE distro with Windows 7/XP-like desktop and Chrome and she should be comfortable with anything.

Like Linux Lite distro[0], I'm running it right now and except for the inability of using super/windows key as part of multi-key shortcuts ala Windows 7, it's almost perfect as a drop-in replacement for the latter (for me personally and a couple of my friends)...

[0] https://www.linuxliteos.com/

> to be honest, put grandma in a XFCE distro with Windows 7/XP-like desktop and Chrome and she should be comfortable with anything.

I did this awhile back. Grandma got upset that her library of Windows games, some of which she had been playing for over 15 years, weren't around anymore.

As more and more stuff has moved online, this is less of a problem, but my mother is still reliant upon Flash for certain online games.

Also those online experiences are, in general, inferior. They have lots of ads and pop-ups abound. The web pages are made as confusing as possible to try to entice viewers to click through to a "partner" and sign up for some service, etc etc.

Comparatively, the old Wheel of Fortune game my Grandma got 15 or more years ago (on a physical CD!) is better than anything available now.

Ha, that's what would happen with my dad. All he gives a crap about is his chess game. Hell, just moving to a new laptop with the latest version of Windows screwed up his access to that game for a bit and he had a meltdown.

If he weren't a grouchy old 85 year old man, not too receptive to fancy new technology, I'd buy him an iPad, put a nice chess game on it, and confiscate the PC.

> I'd buy him an iPad, put a nice chess game on it, and confiscate the PC.

Yeah but then a few updates later the chess game adds IAP and starts showing deceptive ads every 5 moves.

Snap/Snapcraft is a perfect example of the pain points Linux ecosystem, because Snap and Flatpak are two different solutions to the same problem. What do you tell grandma if a Flatpak version of her application exists, but not a Snap one?

I've migrated multiple family members to Linux, and I've never had a single one ask how to install an apt. I just make sure all the applications they need (Libre office & Firefox mostly) are installed. This type of user isn't installing things on a regular basis, even on a windows machine.

IMO the real pain points are for more advanced users, I prefer to develop on a Linux box but I have always had to keep a windows installation maintained just for mech CAD software, there simply isn't anything decent avaliable for Linux.

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