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Comment by lsh | Hacker News Reader

there is also evidence this ability to conjure imagery in our minds simply does not exist for some: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia

which leads me to wonder if the capability exists on a spectrum and is stronger or weaker in some. A stronger capability might correlate to a stronger 'signal' ...?

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I am highly skeptical of Aphantasia, as it's impossible to evaluate what someone else believes they see. I think it's much more likely that Aphantasia is people (like me) who make sharp distinctions between what they can imagine (rotating colors on shapes etc etc) and what they see when looking at something for real - e.g - the detail of a loved one's face.

I challenge anyone who believes they have a highly developed mind's eye to draw such a face purely from memory.

I have this! I found out from a random daytime TV program and did some online tests. I didn’t realise until that point that other people can make clear images of things in their head.

Weirdly I’m actually quite good at drawing something from memory like a bicycle (I love Pictionary!) but I can’t actually make a image of it in my head.

Brains are strange.

Agreed, from the description it sounds closer to "people who are aware of the missing parts in the imagined image".

Never heard of this "condition" before. It may apply to me. I can somewhat imagine a static thing or a face but trying to "zoom in"/"rotate" or imagining smaller details completely ruins the illusion.

Do people actually see images of things in their head?

I can close my eyes and think of something, but I won't perceive anything more than a linear description of it.

At best, I can use these visual descriptions to draw an outline in my head, but it instantly fades out if I don't continuously re-draw it.

Kind of like this: https://i.imgur.com/0zuPIPV.gifv

I have no issue conjuring clear images when closing eyes. I guess it depends how your brain is wired and this is probably why we have ways to refer people who are good at drawing, painting, etc. They probably have a mix of clear visualization and very good hand/finger coordination.

- Can you imagine the color of the floor, walls and ceiling at work?

- Can you imagine the color of the eyes and hairs of your coworkers?

- Can you imagine the home screen of your phone and see how many application icons can fit in a row and column?

- Can you imagine Google's logo and see the color of each letter?

- Can you imagine your car manufacturer's logo and draw it?

1) I can do that easily, and even can imagine the paint texture for the walls.

2) Hair for all of them, but I can only picture the eyes of the people who had unusual colors (blue, gray, green). Maybe I never paid much attention if they had normal brown eyes.

3) Row yes, but I wasn't sure about the column (4 or 5).

4) Yes.

5) easiest task on the list.

I'm pretty sure less than 1% of people know the colors of Google's letters.

Google has colored letters?

Supposedly, most people do. There was an article on hn about "aphantasia" (the lack of mental imagery) not to long ago, but I can't seem to find it now. Google turns up quite a few hits though.

I can't help but be a little sceptical of the concept though. I believe there's probably a spectrum but maybe not as wide is claimed. Based on the comment sections of basically any article on the subect, I wonder if there isn't something like imposter syndrome going on. Where the majority of people dont think they have as sharp mental imagery as the average person.

Aphantasia is definitely real. My inner visual world has always consisted of the view of the inside of my eyelids. Thinking for me is an almost purely verbal process, in an inner voice that I don’t percieve as sound in any way. I can navigate in my mind, and describe accurately places I’ve been, but there’s never an image, only a kind of spatial perception, combined with knowledge (of materials, colors etc.)

I thought this was how everyone’s mind worked, until I met my ex, who is on the opposite end of the scale. She described her inner world as sometimes more vivid and detailed than the real world. I thought she was almost unique in this, until I started asking other people and realised that most people see images in their mind, of varying detail and vividness. Some can easily project onto their visual input and, for example, put a moustache or wings on someone. I’ve also come to learn that many people hear their own voice when they think (and many, non-schizophrenic, people hear other voices too), and can also imagine smells and tastes.

My episodic memory is affected by my aphantasia, as well as my people recognition skills. I can find it hard to recognise someone if they’ve changed their hair, grown a beard or changed their appearance in some other way.

I do dream though, vivid dreams, and am quite good at recalling them. But again the memory of the dreams, like other memories, is not visual.

I’m quite fascinated with this subject, and have some thoughts of picking up where I left off on my psychology master to be able to study it more. It’d be interesting to see if there are correlates in big-5 personality, iq, mental health etc.)

Can't reply to your other comment, presumably due to comment depth -- but yes, I did all of those vividly and with ease, even with my eyes open, except for counting the number of icons in my imagined phone screen. Somehow I can imagine the phone screen as a whole, filled with icons, but actually counting them feels weird, like how reading written text inside a dream is weird.

Until I read [0], I had never thought about it and just assumed that everything else was like me. Hah!

[0] https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/baTWMegR42PAsH9qJ/generalizi...

>Do people actually see images of things in their head?

Yes, and Forbidden Planet "plastic educator" comes to mind :)

Yep, I can visualize images of some things, especially things I am familiar with or that left an impression on me (incomplete and with inaccuracies, I'm sure). I think I am also fairly visual/spatial in my thought processes.

What you described is exactly how I experience things in my head as well, including that redrawing part.

I've noticed though that as I've spent years learning Japanese characters, I am somewhat better at visualizing them in my head. I can see (or "feel", as it's not really visual exactly in the same sense as seeing, although they are not just concepts but have spatial locations) whole subcomponents at a time instead of having to plot each line.

As far as I know, aphantasia is very real. But you can train yourself to see images in your head.

See: image streaming by Win Wenger http://winwenger.com/imstream.htm

I'd be very curious to see if you are able to see simple things in your mind's eye after practising this for a week or two

Interesting. What are your dreams like? Do they look like abstract pictures (lanes? shapes?) or have no picture at all?

Dreams are more visual, although I can't recall ever seeing colors. There's no texture or details, just general outlines.

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