Making a phone spying tool because "It seemed challenging and fun." Bad idea. | Hacker News Reader

Making a phone spying tool because "It seemed challenging and fun." Bad idea.

f-secure.com

26 pointsFSecurePal18 comments

Why are apps allowed to be silently installed and executed by just inserting an SD card?

I don't agree with the "Bad idea" label in the title. If it can be done, it will be done. Maybe black hats are already doing it? Bringing the knowledge to the public isn't a bad idea.

Edit: fix typo

> Phone Creeper is a Windows Mobile application (also being developed for Android).

Silent malicious install on Windows is pretty standard and has been for more than a decade.

Now, Android...that's surprising. Does Google really allow apps to install themselves without notifying the user? The Linux security model should easily prevent that.

Fucking good idea. That is awesome.

The directly linked post rather understates its claimed capabilities. Look at all the stuff this does: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3977534

However, it's hard to get around the fact that if someone thinks you're spying on them, they can just look at their phone bill and see the text messages, which tells them all the commands you ever ran with this tool. EDIT: I might be partially wrong. You can set it up so that it communicates via polling an FTP server, instead of SMS.

  Fucking good idea. That is awesome.

No. And no.

Maybe using the software maliciously is a bad idea, but this seems to have exactly the same functionality as those programs people put on their laptops in case it gets stolen.

I'd point out that those programs don't silently install themselves without the owner's knowledge or consent, which makes a world of difference.

Just depends on whether you consider the SD card slot a part of the user interface.

It would be very easy to rephrase the description as a personal safety tool yada yada yada.

The real point here is that Windows and apparently Android have some counterintuitive, easily abused features.

I used to be a little bit grey hat so maybe my perspective here is a little different. I see breaking security as just as much fun as building secure systems. And once you do it, why wouldn't you release the source to brag a little?

To take a perhaps unpopular stance:

There is this argument that people shouldn't do certain kinds of science for fear of what it could lead to. Don't turn on the LHC because it might make a black hole (science thoroughly disputed this before the LHC was even finished). Its ridiculous. Science and knowledge can lead to bombs, mind control, and death. Or, they can lead to space travel, better mental health, and longer life. Its all about the implementation of the knowledge.

The same argument needs to be made about software.

Well, this is less like evil science and more like evil engineering. The idea that certain types of knowledge should not be pursued is controversial, but the idea that certain types of things should not be built is less so.

There is a scene in the Simpsons where Professor Frink shows off his death ray prototype and is forced to admit that "Well, to be honest, the ray only has evil applications..." This is one of those things, like a poisoned candy bar or a combination baby-rattle-mini-chainsaw, that only has evil applications. It should not be built (not the same thing as saying that you shouldn't be allowed to build it, btw), and if you build it you bear a partial moral (not necessarily legal) responsibility for its use which can't be waved away by saying "I am not responsible for evil uses".

In this application, incorrect.

I would install it on my phone. If it gets stolen, I can remotely control it so that I can get it back at a later date.

Good point, I didn't think of that.

Don't write software because it'll cause a blackhole? I agree, that is ridiculous. I'm joking of course, the thing people are concerned about is being spied upon and never knowing it. That's not ridiculous.

I don't particularly like the software's intended purpose, but I have to say, it's really very clever.

I can understand trying to write it. I can understand announcing that you succeeded. But releasing it crosses over the line in my opinion. I'm on my phone so the forum link isn't working. Did he actually release it?

Yeah, it's existed for quite some time (over a year.)

Anyway this is an old idea. There are solutions like this available long time ago. This for example: http://mobile-spy.com/

Hmm my sandboxed iPhone is looking better :)

The same one that had the jailbreakme.com exploit for so long?

I have an iPhone, too, but to be fair, exploits don't discriminate all that much.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com