After the claims Oracle made during the Google trial (such as APIs and method signatures being patent-able), it is clear that one can't work on the Java platform without infringing Oracle's IP. If Oracle doesn't sue you now, it can sue you when it makes financial sense to do so.
.Net looks like a much better alternative, with a patent pledge and ECMA standardization. Although to be fair, Microsoft is still a supporter of patent lobbies.
Its only been a couple of years that Microsoft has been behaving "better". I suggest you read up on the history of Java, Android, Google and Microsoft because you also seem to be unaware what Android Oracle vs Google was really about; Its wasn't about patents, it was about copyright.
You know what they say about history: Those who don't know it are doomed to repeat it.
So? Oracle has never behaved good, so there's that. Do you expect a MS regression?
Besides MS has made some concrete efforts to clear things, like a pledge to not sue over patents, an ECMA standard, etc.
>I suggest you read up on the history of Java, Android, Google and Microsoft because you also seem to be unaware what Android Oracle vs Google was really about; Its wasn't about patents, it was about copyright.
Same difference if Oracle ends up suing you for recreating Java APIs.
Not at all. In a copyright case, you can argue fair use, as Google did.
On top of that, while the promise mentions "Microsoft-owned or Microsoft-controlled patents" it is very specific about who is promising not to sue - Microsoft only, not its partners, subsidiaries or other affiliated entities. So they still have plenty of room to arrange for opponents to be sued.
[1] https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecifications/dn646765
Comparing evils is always hard. Oracle is definitely not my favourite company. However today this was posted about Microsoft: https://www.ghacks.net/2018/09/12/microsoft-intercepting-fir...
Copyrightable.
> it is clear that one can't work on the Java platform without infringing Oracle's IP.
That's not at all clear. After the third time Oracle v. Google gets ruled on by the trial court, it will undoubtedly be appealed to the Federal Circuit again. Whatever happens there, it is likely at least Google (given how the Federal Circuit has constrained what must happen at the District Court in the prior Appeal) and possibly Oracle will attempt an appeal to the Supreme Court. After that (whether the Supreme Court hears the case or not, but especially if they do), then what the law is in this area may be clear. Until then, all that is clear is what the Federal Circuit’s view of Ninth Circuit case law is, which as precedent is binding on no other court (any court bound by Ninth Circuit case law is bound by the actual case law of the Circuit, not the Federal Circuit’s interpretation of it) and, for litigants, has predictive power only for cases with patent claims that also raise similar copyright issues, and which arise out of districts in the Ninth Circuit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines#...
Google had the option to buy Sun after helping to their downfall, they have chosen not to spend the money to own Java. Now they get to spend on lawyers instead.
People have certainly learnt their lessons that the stewards cannot be trusted - they could get bought out as with Sun or their management could change any time. How users rejected Facebook's React License speaks of better awareness on these issues and is welcome.
What you're looking for goes beyond any traditional notion of free software, in the Stallmanist sense.
I seem to be missing a historical bit there.
Long story short, Oracle bought java and it's back to square one, with layers and court this time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYw3X4RZv6Y&feature=youtu.be...
Good for them. The parent suggests we should not stick to a platform that imposes such rules.
However I wasn't expecting the same guy to actually promote .net, which is exactly a Java clone (created soon after the justice told Microsoft to stop trying to harm Java with this J++ thing) which only ran on Windows. It still does, because .net core is just a subset of the entire platform. But it's got a big corporation behind dictating its future development which poses the same threats as Oracle.
So given nobody can predict the future right now, I think I'd better keep using the long time open source, community focused and cross-platform alternative, which happens to be Java.
That's a pretty extreme interpretation. Most people aren't trying to ship Java-compatible runtimes, as Google did,
If you're big enough, they will come after you. I think it's perfectly rational - and i'd argue smart - to cut them off early before it's too late.
"Triangulation 245: James Gosling"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYw3X4RZv6Y&feature=youtu.be...
If IBM had not given up to buy Sun, I am pretty sure they would have done likewise.
Plenty of JVM vendors are selling their versions without getting into trouble by playing by the rules.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines#...
The versions mentioned here are strict Java compatible in that they follow a well-defined standard and an elaborate test suite. Quite different from Java Android.
And what you are talking about is just ridiculous. There are very few real world (if any) Scala projects that don't rely on least some Java based libraries. Either directly or through transitive dependencies.
This Google Trends search shows .NET Core as leading since February 2017 [1]
[1] https://trends.google.fi/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&q=....
https://www.indeed.com/q-erlang-jobs.html 83 erlang jobs
https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=.net&l= 56,630 .NET jobs
My world is pretty much divided between Java and .NET, with a sprinkle of C++.
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/webdev/2018/04/17/library-m...
It explicitly states itself as being a way to "simply [want to] acquire a couple of files" I don't get the connection you're trying to make.
" - If your project does not require additional tools (like Node, npm, Gulp, Grunt, WebPack, etc) and you simply want to acquire a couple of files, then LibMan might be for you.
- LibMan lets you specify exactly where the files should be placed inside your project. (No additional build tasks or manual file copying required!)
- LibMan provides the benefit of a much smaller footprint in your web project as it only downloads the files you need. "
Basically the way to avoid touching node or anything related to it.
So why not Unix instead of *VM? It's been stable for quite some time, and offers massively better tools than these two alternatives.
Next time I want to develop a frontend system, I think I'll try reasonml.
If you're thinking about life without Java, Typescript is interesting. Is it perfect? No, but it's evolving quickly, has traction, and the ecosystem is pretty good.