Why I’m Bullish on the New York Startup Ecosystem | Hacker News Reader

Why I’m Bullish on the New York Startup Ecosystem

medium.com

52 pointscrunchynuts123 comments

The NYC scene seems much more grounded than Silicon Valley. As others have said all the big tech companies are already here but, unlike Silicon Valley, anyone who is anyone in tons of other industries is also in NYC. That keeps the focus more on doing meaningful things with tech vs the tech for tech’s sake pattern that Silicon Valley seems stuck in.

That's how I feel as a consultant here in NYC. I get whiplash when I go to SF on business.

I'm in NYC too, but I get the opposite feeling when I travel.

I'm glad to see it is growing. I was in NYC for the first half of the decade and the "grounded" nature of NYC was its pitfall.

Its not the lack of 'tech for tech's sake', its the lack of willing backers, the lack of meaningful VCs, the lack of 'pay it forward' mentality, the lack of historical counterculture having any meaningful impact amongst the old world elitists.

If that's changing then NYC will offer an unparalleled opportunity that Silicon Valley could have difficulty keeping up with. I still suspect that there are like 3 VC portfolios all named Union Square Ventures that any project has to conform to, and if it doesn't, FUHGET ABOUT IT

> the lack of historical counterculture having any meaningful impact amongst the old world elitists

Hm? In want sense? New York City has spawned numerous countercultural movements. The beats, punk rock, hip hop, all originated in NYC.

I think those all grew organically without the analogue of "VC Money" backing them.

NYC: still old world elites and I like it

this observation still prevents creating what works about Silicon Valley

I mean, it's almost like arguing with someone whether or not the sky is blue. The idea the NYC has no meaningful counterculture is not only wrong, but ridiculously wrong at that. The Stonewall riots happened there for Christ's sake. It'd be sort of petulant to dismiss the cultural movements that have come out of NYC. Actually, you'd have to be really,I mean, unimaginably out-of-touch with reality to dismiss NYC counterculture.

It simply didn't contribute to its broader/VC/tech industries like how Silicon Valley was shaped, rendering this entire semantically debate moot.

Every place that wants to be the next silicon valley, or Silicon "lesser geographical/architectural structure", simply can't do it without the generational culture to support it.

I think what it boils down to is that startup ecosystems outside of SF now have the upper edge when it comes to hiring relative to Bay Area startups because you aren't competing against large tech giants who can outpay what you can afford to pay by 2-3x. Sure, you are competing against satellite offices of FB/Google/etc but it's on a much smaller scale. The opportunity cost for an engineer to take a gamble on a small startup is therefore smaller, so companies can attract relatively better talent in these markets.

You are also competing against all the banks and hedge funds

Sure, though the supply of developer jobs at an elite HF/algo trading firm are much smaller so not really a meaningful factor IMO. I don't think the same people who would want to work at a GOOG/FB or startup are the same people who would be happy on the IT team at a bank. I know places like Cap 1 and Amex have growing digital teams though AFAIK their comp is not comparable to what you'd make at a large tech co, meaning the opportunity cost is not as high as Bay Area.

It's not any smaller. There are as many developers working in top banks as there are working in the big 4.

In London and NYC, there is a rather aggressive competition between web and finance and startups. Startups can't compete on anything and they get peanuts when it comes to employees.

It's actually the same people working everywhere. A typical office building has 10 000 seats, there is a role for you where you will be happy.

> The most famous recent “mafia” in the Bay Area is from PayPal, which included Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, Roelof Botha, Reid Hoffman, and Keith Rabois, among others shown below.

> New York’s most notable “mafia” is from Gilt Groupe...

I'm not sure if Gilt Groupe is really comparable to PayPal. I'm skeptical that it ever will be.

SV's main advantage: talent/investor network effects & shared knowledge of how to scale businesses. Two big problems with SV: (i) high rent; (ii) groupthink.

The problem with NYC is that you still have the same problems as SV (in particular: high rent + groupthink), but with lower network effects & shared knowledge of how to scale businesses. On top of that NYC seems to also face the following additional problems: (i) lack of imagination for deep tech; (ii) a shorter-term orientation.

The advantages that NYC has: (i) industry-specific network effects (finance, fashion, etc); (ii) a superior skyline/aesthetic.

Living in a premium/central part of NYC costs about the same as living in a premium/central part of SF, but New York has drastically better transit connectivity to more affordable outlying areas. The high rents are more escapable.

I don't know if you can have a successful startup ecosystem without anchor BigCo companies that bring people to the area and eventually when these people leave they become VCs/founders/CTOs etc.

Pretty much every big name tech company has a presence in NYC, from FB to Google to Uber and smaller companies like Dropbox and Square.

Right, but without an HQ there is no anchor.

I was under the impression that startup ecosystems develop around good universities that can supply them high quality graduates that are willing to risk low pay for a chance at winning the lotto.

Hard for me to take it seriously when The Players Tribune is included as an "awesome company", but I digress.

Why I'm Bearish on the New York Startup Ecosystem : because I moved there when I was also Bullish!!

To be more precise:

1. Something feels off if you contact the local startups

I approached a few to see if they needed help. I do full stack, I love learning new technologies, and I love challenges. From R to networking, there are not many things I haven't played with. I know a few different ways to get things done, each with they pros and cons.

Because interviews go both ways, I tried to discuss with them the problem they are facing and their choice of technology, mostly to see what I might be getting in. I noticed a lot of cargo-cult and a lack of deep understanding. It is hard to explain briefly. My spider sense just told me something was off.

Also, my lack of diploma was apparently a black mark - even if I have tens of years of experience. Maybe it is elitism? I don't know. It feels weird.

And god forbid you say something that they later realize was right. They seem to really resent that. A month ago, when quizzed on the crypto market, I explained that person I was seriously bullish on Dogecoin for technical reasons, because I just had had the same discussion on HN. It was not a heated conversion - just a regular technical arguments. Since then, DOGE doubled. We were supposed to grab a coffee this week. I haven't heard from them. I suppose I won't. That feels even weirder.

2. When you try to deliver services, you notice the local ecosystem is too grounded

Most startups there seem to have little ambition, and are not willing to move fast or break things - or to even take that risk. Instead, they take the buzzword technology of the day, apply it to a simple problem, see if that can somehow be profitable.

I run my own consulting business. I have delivered crazy things to my clients crazy requests- and to their satisfaction. In NYC, I see huge opportunities to do things differently. I would even be willing to take the fully risk, and to be paid on the percentage of improvement - or zero if I can't improve things. But they always seem to err on the ultra safe side, and they seem to be very stuck in their ways.

3. Because I know consider NYC mostly as a base to offshore my services

Maybe the NYC ecosystem will get its act together at some point in the future. Maybe I will find some company that values getting things done?

I have clients in Europe and the East coast. NYC is perfectly as a home: there are many good restaurants, EWR has good direct flights to many places, and the subway system mostly does it job.

Maybe I am bad cultural fit for the North East? But I'm no longer bullish on the NYC scene.

A bit off topic, but could anyone recommend a good site for job hunting (development jobs) in NY?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com