Hacker News Reader

Comment by crazygringo | Hacker News Reader

How is that any different from grocery stores asking everyone if they have a reward card, clothing stores asking if you have their credit card, McDonald's asking if you want to super-size that, or bartenders being required to offer to upsell liquor?

It's extremely common for cashiers to be required to ask if customers are part of whatever program is relevant, if they would like the current promotion, etc. Nobody's going to get fired for forgetting once... but if you're reminded repeatedly by management and you continue not to, then what would you expect to happen?

View on HN

One of the things I used to like about shopping at Whole Foods - no stupid club pricing.

Yeah, I have prime - but I am not putting the app on my phone and don't want to give my phone number out, or be bothered too. Just let me buy my groceries in piece.

>One of the things I used to like about shopping at Whole Foods - no stupid club pricing

Of course not; everything there is (was?) insanely expensive because they knew their core customers would pay.

You’re paying at the club stores, they’re just spreading it out over different items you buy. WH might still be more but the club isn’t about leaving money on the table.

>WH might still be more

Sure is. I understand that the club nonsense is a marketing stunt, but at the end of the day WH is (was?) overpriced, which is all that matters.

Everything? No. Certain produce, bulk items, and white label products were cost competitive, and often cheaper, than regular groceries. At least that was true ~15 years ago when I used to shop there regularly, and save money, in the DC area.

Yes, WF prices are often cheaper for the exact same products vs. other stores, it's just that they also carry a more expensive organic natural chemical-free locally sourced indie niche upgrade of the same thing next to it.

I beg to differ. Below is my source that (I took the photos). $4 at Asian grocery store vs $10. Regular price at Asian store is $5 It's coffee from New Orleans, nothing exotic.

http://imgur.com/gallery/BrHhzVx

The coffee you posted is arranged in a aesthetically pleasing manner which justifies a higher price for the yuppies who don't have the time to cross shop.

The higher price may make people think they are buying a premium quality product, and derive additional pleasure of consuming luxury goods even while not knowing it was marked up peasant food.

I love how the asian grocery store accurately labels it as "coffee with chicory" whereas whole foods just calls it "regular coffee"

It took me a while to get the Amazon app on my phone. Now it’s one of the most useful apps I have. I love being able to quickly drop something in my cart in like two taps just as I think about it, or scan a barcode to double check the price of something.

If you do a lot of shopping on Amazon anyway the app is a win.

Once I can use it to scan groceries as I put them in the cart and walk straight to the car it’ll be even better.

Scanning groceries as you shop and not having to take them out of the cart again at a till has existed at Waitrose since at least the year 2000

I do it at Stop&Shop with a dedicated scanner all the time. Does anyone do it with a smartphone app?

You don't need the Whole Foods app. Just go to your Amazon app, go to the shopping cart, and click "Whole Foods Code."

Note: you may have to link your phone number to your Amazon account at the link below before this works:

https://www.amazon.com/primesavings

They're looking for any reason to fire old employees so they can hire new employees at lower wages. This is one of the reasons unions exist.

but if you're reminded repeatedly by management and you continue not to, then what would you expect to happen?

I’d expect a massive fucking award for not constantly pissing off customers with this nonsense.

And you'd be fired because no one else lives in the world you've created in your head.

I do. I am a Prime member but when Whole Foods cashiers ask I say "no" because I just want to get the bullshit over with and get out of there.

If you're so bothered to be there, why did you go in the first place? You know Prime members get an addition discount on top of sale items, yes? Do you enjoy paying more for your groceries?

No, you don't live in the world that matthewmacleod described. You live in a world where the customer doesn't want to put up with the nonsense. We all live in that world.

But matthewmacleod lives in a world where the cashier will be rewarded (rather than fired) for ditching the script and just getting on with it. We'd all like to live in matthewmacleod's world, but I don't think any of us actually do...

Yeah, I appreciate that it’s a bit of a fantasy world.

This happens at shops I occasionally use in the UK now too, and with some of them it’s bad enough that I actively avoid shopping in them if there’s any possible alternatives. Point is that this kind of incessant nagging is another metrics-driven measure that doesn’t necessarily have the expected results.

That's not the point; you don't get awards for purposefully and repeatedly violating company policy on a hunch that the customers prefer it.

And you're actually validating Amazon's policy: you're annoyed and yet you're still both a Prime member and a WF client, which means they lost nothing by annoying you.

For business "annoyance" is like a hidden debt that keeps accumulating until it reaches a threshold where they have to pay for the whole amount.

Very true.

I just cancelled my prime account after multiple "annoyances" of packages not coming in 3 days, being dropped at the post office instead and getting delayed a day, and the straw that broke the camel's back - no compensation for missed delivery dates. I had to twist an agent's arm like crazy to get a month of prime.

And that's part of the problem.

I go to Super Duper in SF, and every time, the employee is forced to ask: "Have you been to Super Duper before?" If I say yes, "Welcome back!" if I say no, "Welcome!"¹. It is pointless. All I want is lunch. Want to see that I've been here before? You have my credit card number…

¹The exact words might not be right, the point is that there is no meaningful difference to the customer between the responses.

Now that's just being antisocial.

Lol, "have you dined with us before" is the most irritating thing. I usually want to say, "no, but I've dined at a thousand other restaurants, will this be radically unfamiliar?"

In my experience servers ask this to find out if they should give the longer description of the menu or not. If you have been there before they might just tell you the specials, while if you haven't they'll tell you about some of the most popular items and anything unique about the way they do things (tapas style, etc.).

I've not once received useful information when answering this question honestly. Maybe because my face is also too honest :)

> All I want is lunch.

All they want is to know whether they need to explain to you in detail or if you already have a sense of the menu.

Not sure what you find odd with people trying to provide you good service. smh

Except in the case you're replying to.. which seems to indicate there's no difference in response from the employee.

> All they want is to know whether they need to explain to you in detail or if you already have a sense of the menu.

You missed the point of my post: they don't explain the menu to you in detail, if you answer in the negative. This particular part of their script occurs after you order to, so there isn't even an opportunity.

Their menu is also bog-standard hamburgers, with not a whole lot of options.

> trying to provide you good service

No service is being provided during this part of the interaction, is my point. The whole thing would be more pleasurable if it was genuine, and not a forced, scripted word track.

>"Welcome!"¹. It is pointless. All I want is lunch.

Yeesh. If that bugs you then... just lighten up. Most people aren't anti-social to such an extreme. You're the odd man out here, not the rest of humanity.

You're the odd man out here, not the rest of humanity.

Really? People like the forced conviviality? In San Francisco, one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the country? With a sizable number of first-generation immigrants, unacculturated to the strange customs of the USA?

Why can't we have attentive food service, where they pour you fresh coffee the second you sign them to but not earlier, and where they don't intrude on the conversation every 3 to 5 minutes?

You can, you just have to avoid chain restaurants to do so.

rest of the US

Most of the world doesn’t have the bizarre forced scripted friendliness in customer service that the US has. People are allowed to be polite or friendly in their own personal way.

I was shocked at how obviously insincere servers were when I first went to the US - at least in my home country sure you get grumps but when someone gives good service it feels like a connection with them... not a faux polite scripted exchange.

I prefer it - but fast food countries value consistency over higher highs and lower lows.

Is using your credit card number for this purpose ethical? Is it legal? Is it desirable?

I get it. I know that. It’s not the cashier’s fault. It just kinda sucks that a transaction as simple as “buying some food” is now draped in this nonsense.

It does, but from their perspective, it works. Stores make more money (via numerous avenues) with stuff like this, so they'll continue to do it.

Don’t worry Matthew, I live there. We can start our own company and hire each other, and we’ll never talk to customers, ever. We sell silence. Come to Matthew’s head and pay us not to talk to you. It’s like Disneyland for grown ups.

So the “real” world is one ruled by corporations where the decision maker on all policies is someone that never comes within earshot of an actual customer transaction?

I guess that is arguably the world we have been trending towards but it’s not the only viable world.

> So the “real” world is one ruled by corporations where the decision maker on all policies is someone that never comes within earshot of an actual customer transaction?

The real world is one where you do the job you're paid to do.

> The real world is one where you do the job you're paid to do.

Actually the real world is the one where the FTC has largely given up on regulating monopolistic behaviour and The Department of Labor has abdicated its responsibility of protecting workers from abusive employers. In this real world the only moral principle that anyone cares about is profit.

Guess what? You create more business by not annoying your customers and providing awesome service. These poor attempts at annoying your customers means you will have less of them.

Where's the evidence of that? SO you think the people espousing these programs are all drooling morons and would make more money without them? I think you're wrong.

Yes quite frankly I do think they are drooling morons that provide lower quality service instead of focusing on making their customer happy.

Customer satisfaction improvements cost money, which drives up prices, which loses customers. The highest customer satisfaction results tend to be associated with luxury brands.

The wisdom of annoyances that increase profit-per-customer yet lose some customers all depends on if it results in a net gain or a loss.

The mobile game ecosystem (pay-to-win) and the dominant web content model (ads) both suggest that some degree of annoyance is the more popular path.

They are separate entity from amazon afaik, and are unrelated to grochery shopping.

Imagine every time pumping at BP being asked if you need libricant oil for your plane (that you dont have but they keep asking every time).

Further the whole thing is a scam - wholefoods advertise Prime as get extra 10% off shopping but upon inqury I was told there are only some 60 items in the whole store that are Prime discounted. Thats far from literally their ad “take extra 10% off your shopoing with Prime”

Funny you mention BP, my local BP gas stations actually ask people if they have the card of a grocery's shop chain, since it give 3 cents/litre off.

Agree - Amazon could very easily add a QR page to their mobile app, and install scanners at registers that fetch a customer's Prime account. No cashier questioning necessary. If you want Prime benefits at Whole Foods, scan your phone.

At the Whole Foods I shop at (NYC) they already have that.

This is exactly what every WF already has. You scan a QR code from your phone on a scanner that faces the customer.

(At least the ones in California and New Hampshire, so I assume everywhere in between.)

already exists, I did that a few weeks ago at WF, but I forgot the search terms (no, it didn't seem intuitive enough, but I suspect that will improve)

You've perfectly discribed the system that already exists. There's a WF app, and there's also a page in the Amazon App that offers the QR Code. Sometimes the scanners installed on the customer side of the POS don't work, so the cashier has to scan it manually. Personally I love being asked if I have a prime account, because they only ask when I haven't already scanned my code, which is something I want to do.

How are you annoying customers by giving them an opportunity to save money? Perhaps the customer is a Prime member and doesn't know or doesn't recall that they will get a discount.

A Prime membership does not automatically save anyone money. It costs money to have it. It's perceived value is entirely subjective, and based on how you value what it offers. It also requires you giving Amazon more money to realize some of the benefits (e.g. free shipping only with Amazon [and their prices aren't always the lowest]).

Presumably the difference is that Amazon is much more likely to punish you for it. I worked at a grocery store in college (Roundy's) and I was never "terrified" about failing to push memberships.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com