Comment by vkou | Hacker News Reader

Comment by vkou | Hacker News Reader

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> The "killer app" here appears to be a lack of resources beyond established relationships. Because of this, whole families were willing to spend their time doing work that most Americans feel is not worth their time.

I really dislike this argument. It makes middle-class Americans sound like a bunch of ungrateful churls, because they think that <some job> is beneath them (at the price the employer is willing to pay, but that part is always left unsaid).

I don't call my landlord an ungrateful churl, because he thinks that my <sub-market-price-offer> for his apartment is beneath him. Yet, this is a consistent argument whenever an employer-employee relationship comes up. No shit, I don't want to pick strawberries for $5/hour, when my rent is $2250/month. That's not because manual labour is beneath me.

The thing is - at a low enough price point, no work is worth anyone's time.

Those family members were probably working for below minimum wage. Surprise - their business was successful, compared to one where you have to hire employees, and pay them a minimum/living wage, and have an inflexible schedule of interest payments to whomever fronted the money for you to start the business, etc, etc.

It's not culture. It's economics.

> at the price the employer is willing to pay, but that part is always left unsaid

The price the employer can offer is denominated in a currency you cannot use. For the family member, it's more like receiving massive equity stake with little to no salary.

A friend of mine had his great uncle come to America penniless in the '80s. They own apartment buildings in Queens now.

That's because a 12-year-old kid is going to come home, finish homework, and then man the store for three hours, taking over from his older sister. Daycare is free because the 15-year-old will manage the 12-year-old and the 12-year-old will manage the 6-year-old when the teenager is out. It's a tough life, and I don't wish it upon my kids but that shit went straight to equity. Those kids are now well off middle aged people, and when their parents (the original immigrants) pass, the grandkids will be fabulously wealthy.

>> I don't want to pick strawberries for $5/hour, when my rent is $2250/month. That's not because manual labour is beneath me.

It is about economics and expectations. No, it is because a $1000 apartment is apparently beneath you. It is the same reason there is a "shortage" in technology yet thousands of Indians applying for those jobs -- because most American students dont want to live in outer San Jose, San Martin, or Rucker and commute for 4hrs or live in nasty apartments. Most Americans also dont want to be tied on Production Support getting calls all night for crap wages.

And frankly, I dont blame you. I'm a computer science grad in the US. The bay area wages, even while inflated, are not living wages for families, certainly nothing given my excellent education...and alternatives. I'm in management. I work half the hours, and earn a good pay.

> It is about economics and expectations. No, it is because a $1000 apartment is apparently beneath you.

And yet, letting my apartment out for $1000 is apparently beneath my landlord (Look at how entitled he is, to be asking $2250! It's almost like that's the price the market is willing to bear!)

Yet, we only use this sort of judgmental language to express outrage at employees, unwilling to work at a price below what the market is willing to bear.

>> unwilling to work at a price below what the market is willing to bear.

You realize I'm agreeing with you right? You are looking at the Palo Alto market, or San Jose market. But an immigrant might be willing to live in inner Oakland or a place where the market IS willing to give you a home for $1000 a month it is just not what you come to expect as an American.

I'm Indian American. My father was willing to live in a roach infested inner city apartment and thus we managed to pay $400 rent. I grew up in the US and got a top-3 school CS degree. I'm unwilling to live like my father. Hence I dont compete with H1s on the "jobs going unfilled" because they dont meet my expectations. Luckily I (and probably you) have options. My father didnt. We're lucky and we can be picky with where we live.

And for the record, the market will absolutely give you a sub $1000 apartment if you commute far out enough and live in disgusting conditions. You and I are unwilling to do so. Others will.

The specific term for what you're talking about is arbitrage. You're making a high wage in the city, but choosing to live in a lower cost of living area and keeping the difference. As someone who commuted hours each way for years, this absolutely works and you don't even need to be a specific ethnicity. I've worked my way up from crappy jobs cleaning up sewer damage, to a call center, then an IT dept, and now into IT management. This is possible for anyone willing to put more work than average, and who is ready when opportunity/luck/karma comes knocking at your door.

Nevermind that scheduling family members to work can be much easier than a worker you hire, which lets a small business run with fewer employees working more valuable hours.

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