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Agreed - college is such a unique social experience and I don't think there's much that can replicate that on a mass scale. There's value in the fact that, for many, you find your best adult friends or partner or cofounder in college. I think the loneliness epidemic we are already facing as a society would really be amplified if we all just went to MOOCs for 2-4 years.

That being said, everyone's situation is different, and not everyone values the social aspects of college the same way, and I think it is important to figure out from an employment perspective how people who choose to take an alternative route to education can get the same opportunities as those who choose the traditional route.

FWIW, the loneliness epidemic has taken place while college enrollment has increased. Which kind of implies that the college experience isn't really an antidote.

There's also: - Living near people who are taking the same classes as you.

18-22 year olds often do not have the drive or study skills to stay focused and engaged with remote learning. My most educational experiences at college were studying with groups in-person. I don't know how well that can be replicated online, especially with youth.

I saw multiple students fail out of college because they skipped classes and didn't learn because they were faffing around. How much more common will that be when you're just sitting at home on a computer, without being in an environment that pushes you to participate in school?

> the same classes as you.

And different classes for that matter. You learn a lot from just hanging out with people in different majors.

But why does this learning need to happen at 18-22. I wen't to college at 18, and I very much wish that I hadn't. I would have been much better off getting a job for a few years first.

In the UK and Europe it is quite normal for students to take a gap year before starting university. Work, travel, apprentice, and save before buckling down for university studies. In the US this is not done at all. It's a pipeline of financial aid and rankings. Colleges don't like when you defer after accepting, that messes up your FAFSA and financial aid package (for reasons I don't comprehend). They'll allow you to defer up to one semester but anymore than that starts the application over.

If you don't apply right out of high school they silo you into the non-traditional student stack. Your ranking is lowered and you lose out on all sorts of financial aid scholarships. You have to take out students loans or fund it through the GI Bill (because you enlisted, right?).

Self-discovery and learning is something they'd rather you pay them for, not backpacking through the outback.

Europe also has countries where national service is still a thing making university deferment an actual necessity.

I went back to university after working for just a couple of years.

It's definitely a totally different experience going back with a wife, daughter and mortgage, than living in a student room with other people at 18.

Nothing? Ever heard of the US DOD (Department of Defense)? It has many branches, each of which is full of 18-22 year old volunteers, who are getting paid to do exactly the 3 bullets you mentioned. The key difference is they are getting paid vs. having to pay...and, they get that experience in numerous cities/towns over the course of 4 years. Some branches are more like the college life than others (USAF, from my experience).

Granted it's not an apples to apples comparison here, but there are less expensive and more efficient ways (Peace Corp as well) of getting that experience. Universities are (should be) for those that enjoy learning or must have that 4 year certificate for the field there interested in working in.

The main difference there being subject to persistent and total authority vs a high degree of freedom requiring personal initiative.

> persistent and total authority

Yep, universities can be rather petty ...

As someone in a university right now, albeit in Russia, I do feel a full unbridled ability to say what I want, learn and research what I want, and think what I want. And, I don't say this as someone who has super mainstream opinions; in fact, I can be fairly young and radical at times ;-)

I can't imagine American universities are too too different. Maybe I'm wrong. But, it seems like there is a weird anti-higher education culture right now that I don't fully understand.

I really do respect my university a lot for the freedom they give me. The authority here is pretty lax. As long as you get the job done and don't smoke in the dorm, they don't care.

Would your unbridled ability to say what you want extend to protesting against the Putin administration if you chose to do so?

I would say so, yeah. Criticisms against the federal government are very common amongst young students.

I regularly say things in public and in public spaces on the internet where my full name and details are attached (e.g., Facebook, VK, etc) that I think to myself "you know, maybe I am pushing this a bit too far". But, as a foreign student, that seems to be more of an irrational fear instilled in me based on the perception we have of Russia back home.

Realistically, unless you're siding with some sort of terrorist organisation, you're generally ok when it comes to the federal government. If you've very blatant about your anti-regime opinions, you might get some attention, but it isn't like you're ever going to get declined a visa renewal or deported or something like that; the most they'll do is watch you more closely.

And, don't get me wrong as well, it would have to be genuine terrorist ties to get you deported. For example, I regularly criticise Russia over their treatment of Oleg Sentsov who is, in my opinion, mislabeled as a terrorist and being treated, honestly, pretty abhorrently. My "terrorist" sympathies and criticism over human rights, however, is not enough to upset the federal migration services.

At the university level, though, I am also very proud of my institution and their commitment to their students. They and the regional government of Tomsk have regularly shown the fact that they're willing to stick up to the federal government in order to protect the students.

You've got the wrong idea regarding western militaries, there is a very big focus on individual initiative. Contrary to the popular belief on this site, people in the military aren't brainless drones who only joined because they had no prospects after high school. A common saying I heard in the USMC was "Tell your Marines what to do, not how to do it. They'll suprise you with their creativity." Yes, you ultimately don't have any say in what task has to be done, but leaders who don't let their subordinates take initiative and figure out the best way to achieve that task are considered poor leaders. I've seen multiple articles about military hacker spaces opening up for junior enlisted to get creative with new solutions to problems. 3D printing is also starting to become more popular with enlisted personnel since it allows to them to make temporary replacements for easily broken parts instead of potentially having to wait weeks for an official replacement to arrive. Examples I can remember are the fan in the air intake of an M1A1 Abrahms, and switches on the control panel of their cargo planes.

In the military, you probably don't get to change your mind and do something different on a whim. And there's the whole killing/being killed thing.

i suspect that you've taken more from their statement than was intended.

> those that enjoy learning

That was a couple of centuries ago. Now universities are mostly for youth storage.

(And room at the DOD facilities is comparatively very limited.)

I learned a lot at college and enjoyed learning. I did party occasionally, but not that much. I was neither lonely or isolated or only one who liked to talk about subjects - there were many people like that.

That's a very cynical opinion.

Personally, I went to Uni and majored physics specifically because of my love for the subject and a desire to learn more. I minored in CS so I could learn to program, and worked a few Web dev jobs after graduating. I also developed a real passion for topics like programming language theory, type theory, mathematical concept formation, etc. and have since managed to get a position as a research student to work in that field.

Yeah, basic training is totally like college semester. And deployment is totally like field trip in the forrest. Wtf. And depending on where soldiers go, in most places they don't get civilian experience. They get soldier experience which is, again, much different.

Theres 1.4 million active duty military, that's a lot of different deployments, not all of which are stereotypical "soldier experiences".

That's like saying the Air Force is full of pilots when in reality only 1% of those in the USAF are pilots.

I think some form of public service should be compulsory at 18, peace corp or military.

If we determined college wasn't necessary for my child to succeed in life. I think it would still be worth the one year tuition fee of having them experience freshmen year. It's just something like you said, that can not be replicated. It builds a skillset I think that is invaluable. Oh, and fun.

I think you’re conflating an education (what you’re getting now) with a life experience (what you’re describing someone going to college is receiving).

I would rather pay for my kids to travel the world for a year after high school, and then educate them separately (similar to the education you’re receiving now, internships, etc), so they can have a richer life experience and hopefully a better education.

Disclaimer: Started working at 17, did not attend college.

You're right, I am. However, that life experience is derived from the common experience of "being in college", so I think the two are necessarily intertwined. I don't think you'd get the same experience traveling the world (you'd get great experience, just not anything similar) or just living near other 18-22 year olds without the common goal of graduation.

Fair point. Having not gone to college, I can only speculate as to whether it's an experience worth having. Having traveled around the world and meeting people more diverse than I could've ever hoped for within my home state, I can say it's an experience worth replicating.

There are many paths to teaching young adults self-sufficiency, resilience, and how to adapt and overcome. I have a hunch the college track is a bit more expensive and inefficient vs other tracks; it's still a viable path, but suboptimal IMHO.

As someone who went to three different colleges to end up with one unused degree, I have pretty mixed feelings on the worth-it factor. Financially, I don't think it really opened the door through which I now make money, and I think this is increasingly true, that the debt from college is a barrier to entrepreneurship more than the knowledge opens doors.

In terms of development and fulfillment, it's harder to say. But I don't think the social time I got was quality social time. Instead of just being around a bunch of 18-22 year olds, I think I would have gotten a lot more out of traveling the world and meeting people from diverse backgrounds and of diverse ages. College culture just modeled how to be stressed, procrastinate and abuse alcohol.

That being said, what I did study there (music), I would have had a very hard time pursuing to the degree I did without that environment, so depending on what one studies it may be worth it. All in all, I'm leery of the college experience and how heavily it is sold as a cure-all for a person's future. Kind of a sneaky debt-engine if you ask me.

I really appreciate your comment. I've put five figures away for each of my kids already in investment accounts, and I get hassled by family with questions like, "What about college? Why didn't you put it in a 529 plan?" I respond with, "What if they want to start a business?" which always gets me a blank stare, like it's Frodo taking the ring to Mordor.

Maybe college improves in the future. Maybe taxes go up a bit and college becomes free in the US (or we live somewhere developed like Europe where college costs are minimal). With that said, I have to plan for a future where college isn't the only path to success for my children.

I too have saved a bunch of money for my kids and none of it is in a 529. For the exact same reason. Maybe they won’t want to go to college.

I applaud your foresight.

> I can watch them in double speed so that I can done quicker and my mind doesn't get bored and wander

Such an incredible time saver. I can't watch vids at normal speed anymore.

Also, the ability to pause and rewatch all or parts of the online lecture is another added bonus. Live lectures are horrible because if you don't understand one part, you might not understand the rest of the lecture. And it sucks having to stop the lecture and ask the prof/TA to go over something they already covered.

I'm also doing Startup School and I like the approach so far. It'll be interesting to see how they handle the scale of the current number of companies. Lectures are easy to post online, and homework/exercises are easy to distribute, but personal feedback requires individual attention, and that's not easy to recreate. The 'office hours' with groups and the vote-based-forums are a good idea to recreate some of that missing personal interaction so it'll be interesting to see how Startup School evolves.

There's nothing special about the 18 – 22 year age range. I attended a boarding high school and had to learn that stuff when I was 4 years younger. So what.

It's probably even more effective an experience if you're younger, but that's unlikely to be something that most people are ever going to have open to them.

can’t anyone rent an apartment in any college town and accomplish living near 18-22 year olds ? In fact if you are 18-22 yourself, it wouldn’t even be weird. You don’t need to pay college tuition to do this.

You'd probably be outcast as soon as people found out that you weren't attending. Which would probably come up pretty quickly when someone asks what your major is or who you have this semester.

You wouldn't be part of the shared experience.

I didn’t say pretend to attend classes. You could just tell the truth, you have a job or doing whatever you are really doing.

Funny, you could probably say the same about joining the military as well..