Opera 11 will have extensions | Hacker News Reader

Opera 11 will have extensions

my.opera.com

39 pointsaw3c253 comments

Why you should care about Opera:

1. More minimal interface than Chrome. New-tab Speed-dial can be a solid background [or image] with no extra cruft. Unlike Chrome which adds bookmarks, recently closed, help links etc.

2. Equivalent performance to Chrome including JavaScript.

3. Firefox-isms while offering chrome performance. Aka Pop-in sidebars for downloads and history rather than new tabs.

5. CTRL-Tabbing is similar to operating system alt-tabbing. You don't even need a tab bar occupying screen real estate.

6. Password manager light-up button is a superior user experience to saved password autocomplete in Chrome and Firefox.

7. Right click mouse gestures. [and fully navigable keyboard only]

Does Opera have an Awesome Bar (i.e. find-as-you-type in the address bar autocompleting from browser history and bookmarks)? Does that integrate with Delicious?

That's probably the biggest reason I stick with Firefox. Chrome's autocompletion doesn't compare (it only does prefix search on the URLs or entire page titles, whereas Firefox does infix search on URLs and words in titles, which makes it much easier to recall a given page).

Yes!

[to first question. can't comment on 2nd because I don't have a delicious account and am not sure how well pre-existing widgets work for it]

[ http://widgets.opera.com/search/?order=name&q=del.icio.u... http://widgets.opera.com/search/?order=name&q=delicious]

[Opera's Awesome Bar is so Awesome it does intext searching too. Ex. If I have an HN page in my history containing a link called "blah ... analytics ... blah" that I never clicked on, I can still find the HN page containing that link by simply typing "analytics"]

Well..."Opera 11 will have extensions" so probably.

"Yes because you can write your own" wasn't quite what I meant :P

Well, it kind of does have that bar already. The delicious integration would probably be an addon, though.

Yes, and it's better than what you describe. For example, I only typed "delic" and it found your post instantly, since it actually does a search on the full text of pages in the history.

Oh my God. I've been using Opera for close to 10 years and had no idea that I could ctrl-tab windows.

Opera has a lot of features, even weird stuff like a BitTorrent client, text-to-speech reading of documents, custom search engines (eg. I can type "h [a] -> [a]" to look for Haskell functions of type [a]->[a] on Hoogle), yet it has excellent performance, even though I almost always have 20+ tabs open.

Edit: I knew about the mouse wheel, though. If you hold the right mouse button and turn the wheel you can do the same thing as ctrl+tab.

Assuming you decided to ditch the tabbar as well, I like to mentally model it like this:

CTRL-N: new globally scoped window. Cycle with ALT-TAB.

CTRL-T: new locally scoped window. Cycle with CTRL-TAB.

Here is a fun one.

If you have multiple tabs, pinch any tab by its base and drag it down. Ooooooooh :-) icon previews of the sites :-)

Lack of MRU tab order for Control Tab behavior is just one way in which I've been becoming increasingly unhappy with UI developments in Chrome. In looking into it, I found a developer's blog entry explaining that it is a design decision; they don't see how MRU fits into their conception of work flow or how to achieve a "perfect" implementation (sorry, I don't have the URL for that entry at hand).

With... v6, I think, of Chrome, they changed the padlock / SSL-TLS designation appearance, to my eye making it less clear when a site is secure. Such UI paradigms take a long time to establish themselves in (non-technical) users' minds, so particularly for security-focused ones, you shouldn't go changing them willy-nilly -- it defeats their primary purpose.

(Separately, their own properties break their secure channel at times by including non-secured resources.)

Rightly or wrongly, in the lack of a more thorough analysis, this has my intuition tweaking. I'm starting to feel jerked around by decisions such as these. (And a corresponding one-way nature of communication, or outright lack of communication, on the matters.)

I know, "looking a gift horse in the mouth". Keeping engineers busy engineering as opposed to "'splaining". And this is a feeling, not an analysis. So I won't claim the high ground, here.

OTOH: Chrome has keep a family member's older laptop functional, where otherwise it probably would have been retired (Opera's recent speed improvements might now also compensate, but a number of sites they use fail in Opera while working in Chrome.)

This seemed to be the main excuse that people had for not trying out Opera in the past, but people already have their favorite browser by this point. Without a significant marketing campaign, I don't see Opera's browser share changing significantly with version 11.

> but people already have their favorite browser by this point

I disagree. People were saying that in 2009 before Google Chrome really became popular. Now people are switching from FF to chrome all the time for a number of reasons.

If Opera brings new things to the table, people very well may switch. The browser wars are not over.

Chrome was new and shiny; the Opera brand is anything but. There was also a massive marketing push from Google (on the Tube in London, for example).

Google has a lot of money (and more importantly, exposure) to push their browser forward and make ridiculously huge marketing campaigns. Opera does not.

Opera's net income in 2008 was about $90 million. And that's from about half a billion dollars in revenue that year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_Software

Yes, Google is much bigger. But don't suggest Opera is poor.

That's not U.S. dollars, that's kroner. On December 31, 2008, that was $13 million on $71 million revenue (http://finance.yahoo.com/currency-converter/#from=NOK;to=USD ; change the date to get historical data).

Oops! Thanks for the correction.

As I said - "more importantly, exposure". Not that Opera is poor but they can't compete with Google's brand awareness.

I was an Opera fan for-frickin'-ever, but I switch to Chrome just recently.

Opera's been light-years ahead of most in the browser industry, but then Things Just Stopped Working. Updating my browser for any reason would mean that bookmark syncronizing stopped for a few days until I figured out why it was broken this time, then I had to manually re-sync my bookmarks.

It has a bunch of features I don't use (torrent client, chat client, mail client, Opera Unite), isn't supported as well, so you run into render problems from time to time, and hasn't copied some of the REALLY good ideas from its competitors, despite having ample time to do so (when I close a tab, I expect the next tab close button to align itself automatically under my mouse button like Chrome).

Opera's my #2 fave browser, but that doesn't mean it really gets any use. I use Chrome for browsing, Firefox for developing, IE for testing, and Opera...

Opera, we had a good run. But it's over. I'm sure you'll find someone new.

Cool. Opera already supports Greasemonkey-style user scripts [1], as does Google Chrome [2].

They're handy for writing simple browser hacks e.g. injecting additional links into certain pages.

[1]: http://www.opera.com/docs/userjs/examples/#greasemonkey

[2]: http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/user-scr...

Open Question for any Opera users out there: Why should I go and use Opera? With Firefox for extensions and Chrome for performance; I'm not sure I need another browser. What benefit does Opera give you? Why do you use it?

Well instead of using two browsers (Fx and Chrome), mail/rss/chat client, a (very simple) torrent client and a note tracker (and some other software), you can simply use the unified package - Opera.

Firefox is dead slow if you add all the needed functionality build in Opera and Chrome doesn't have much going for it (speed-wise check the benchmarks; and Opera is very responsive when I keep my 50+ tabs open, whereas Chrome cannot handle the load, freezes the computer and uses a huge amount of memory).

Oh, by the way, the Opera default is "restore previous session" and it does not close all your tabs when you close the browser so you are encouraged to have one continuous browsing experience; I've been keeping some tabs open for years.

Just a sneak peek.

Reminds me of an old JWZ's quote: "Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can."

I think all Opera's extra goodies are good only if you expect 75% of functionalities. E.g. Opera Chat still don't support encoding fallback (X-chat, IRSSI, mIRC, etc. does), or it is not very obvious to disable the built-in BitTorrent client (disable it in `about:config` by yourself), Opera Link that only merge two bookmarks together, requiring me to manually delete all default bookmarks before (or after) syncing, etc.

But it is a really good browser: fast, has minimum resource usage. I wish there is Opera Lite. (And hope Opera team to finally fix Asian language support.)

I agree, if you go for dedicated clients (irc, mail, rss) you will get more power/functionality if you need them; but I feel that in Opera I get the optimal balance between functionality and complexity. To each his own.

Still, I don't understand what benefits are to explicitly disabling Opera's built-in torrent client; why not use something else?

Opera always override default torrent application on my machine. I found it to be easier to just disable Opera's built-in BitTorrent than changing back the default every few days. I wish they have this simple "Use Opera to handle BitTorrent" checkbox in the Preferences.

For me, it's mouse gestures. Last time I tried getting them in FF with a plugin, it just wasn't as well done (forces you to make distinctions between tabs and windows, for example, that you aren't used to having to think about). Mouse gestures get to be very addictive, and they really are a faster and better way to work.

I'm also a big fan of the developer tools. While similar to Firebug etc, I prefer some of the minor differences in Opera.

I also think built-in support for torrent files is a really nice feature (don't know if any other browsers have caught up with this yet).

Besides mouse gestures I've gotten so used to browsing via keyboard (especially when using Shift+arrow keys) that switching to another browser is nigh impossible, because I get irritated too easily.

And the builtin RSS reader is better than anything else I've come across (not that I spent that much time looking ;-))

I love the rss feed: no signing in, no opening tab upon tab upon tab, no silly magazine layout. Just the feed menu on the top of the page, the individual feeds displayed on the bottom- it's perfect.

I use Opera mostly because I feel like it (yes, I know, poor reason), but generally Opera users like it because it's friendly to power users out of the box. It has a ton of UI features that don't appeal to many people, but that are loved by the people that do use them (e.g. search engine shortcuts, gestures, tab previews, etc).

It's always had great speed, performance, security and has a long history of innovation. When you consider how many features they've created that have become defaults across browsers, everyone is using Opera to one degree or another.

Chrome is a glorified data mining device and just feels overly sterile and corporate, FF grew complacent and has always been buggy, but Opera has everything I need built right into it:torrent client, note taker (very easy to use, super useful since I'l always taking notes on one tutorial or another), selective ad-blocking, the adress field doubles as a search field for any engine I want,it has the most customizable GUI and Opera Unite is awesome for file sharing- a couple friends and I use it to raid each others media collections every few months.

I see Opera as being flexible like FF but has the speed and UI polish of Chrome. That way, I only need to use one browser.

Top feature that no other browser offers: fully customizable UI. Right click on any UI element of the browser and select Customize->Appearance. The Toolbars and Buttons tabs allow full control over the browser UI so I can move buttons and toolbars to my heart's content.

Fully customizable keyboard navigation. Customizable using the interface at Settings->Preferences->Advanced->Shortcuts->Keyboard setup->Edit. Make sure to check the "Enable Single Key Shortcuts" option on the "Keyboard setup" pane to get the most out of it. Check out http://www.opera.com/browser/tutorials/nomouse/

Fast history navigation: This one isnt actually enabled by default; set the following preference to 3 opera:config#UserPrefs|HistoryNavigationMode The history is fully cached so there is absolutely no delay between pressing the back button and viewing the previous page in history and it comes up exactly at the point you left it.

My reason number #322: Instant fully RAM-cached Back button.

I can't stand when other browsers sometimes reload pages when I go back/forward, especially when I had text typed in forms.

Among other, smaller things - it's fast. And by fast I mean: it doesn't use 50-100% of processor. In Chrome, opening more than 2 tabs was a nigthmare. Same with Firefox.

I use it because

1) it is available on all the platforms I use (Linux, Maemo, Mac, Windows, Symbian) and syncs bookmarks to and fro

2) it can be secretly installed in my home on my work computer which runs a heavily customized old Debian without modern libraries.

* Really flexible UI and hotkeys - totally customizable

* A lot of the features I care about have native support, meaning they look and perform better (visual tabs, mouse gestures, ad blocking, etc.)

* Great performance

* I think Opera is probably more innovative than anyone else in the space - many of the new features that have shown up in other browsers recently are copied from Opera. I've had speed dial for ages.

* On Windows, at least, I think it looks a lot nicer than any of the other browsers. Though I guess FF4 copied it a bit so maybe that advantage is less now.

Useless for anything except media exposure. Opera already has all the functionality you would need in a browser (as a regular user, at least). This is probably a move for bonus point with Firefox users who can't do sh*t without extensions - again, not the case in Opera.

Sorry, that's the harsh truth. Might be good news for advanced users that need to do some esoteric stuff but most people using Opera already have all they will ever need, out of the box.

Firefox has everything I need in a Browser. As has Chrome. Or Safari. I don’t need all that stuff Opera can do.

I call bullshit. Which stuff are you referring to, exactly? How long have you used Opera for, and what features can you name/describe off the top of your head?

Man, Opera fans sure are aggressive.

I don’t really know what Opera has to offer and I don’t really know why I should. If Opera is unable to get the message across to someone like me then good luck reaching the rest of humanity.

I obviously have Opera on my system but I haven’t opened it for weeks or months. All I see when I open it are non-native controls and features I don’t need and use (those icons in the status bar for example). I prefer something lean and minimal like Chrome or Safari.

Maybe you really need that feature that only Opera has – use Opera and be happy! Just don’t expect that the rest of humanity is exactly like you.

How am I aggressive? Sorry for the slang I used, too much reddit in my system; I did not mean it to be offensive. Other than that, I am asking an honest question. If you don't know that a feature exists (and Opera has a lot of features but it doesn't shove them in your face) how exactly do you know you don't need it.

Obviously Opera has crap marketing but that's because it assumes intelligent users that will bother to take 10 seconds and read about its features.

Here, if you want a quick fix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_browser_features

You say you prefer something lean and minimal. How exactly is Opera slow and bloated by comparison? If you haven't used it for a couple of weeks and learned what it can do I think you're passing judgment too easily. Opera has a lot of great stuff other browser don't have, you just need to be a bit curios and not wait the information to be spoon-fed to you.

I don't have a problem with you or anyone else using another browser but I don't like people saying things without full knowledge of the facts.

Tools->Mail and Chat accounts? rly? I thought the idea of an all in one internet behemoth died with Netscape Communicator.

Opera Unite? what? why? I just want a web browser. I don't want a web server or file sharing solution.

This is the main reason I don't run Opera apart from testing - I just want a fast small browser. Also I find the UI and rendering to look cluttered and a bit second rate.

Great to see Opera is getting websocket though: http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2010/10/11/websockets

Hardly a behemoth since I can run more tabs on Opera at the same time than on any other browser. Granted, I have quite an old computer but it's perfect for spotting differences between browsers. For others this is probably not an issue.

I use the mail client for my GMail and RSS feeds. Try it and tell me if you notice anything wrong with it. Actually I've been using the integrated client for so long that my perception about stand-alone mail clients is that they're a thing of the past. I guess it's just a matter of perspective, but for me it's far more convenient to open my browser and not think about checking my mail (it lets me know if new mail has arrived).

I don't use Opera Unite and nobody is forcing me to. It just stays out of my way, and so do the other features. Keep only what you like; just because they're there if you need them doesn't mean they slow you down.

I agree @ stand alone mail clients, but I'm betting on webapps. GMail really is a great webapp.

Opera Unite is actually seriously awesome. Faster sharing than uploading somewhere or sending through skype. You can give a person access to some photos without the whole internet seeing it, without having to upload lots of huge pictures or without using the crappy facebook uploader

If you have friends that use Opera, I expect so.

No, they don't need Opera. It is basically a webserver (with js) in a browser - you enable unite, enable file sharing and copy a operaunite.com url to a friend and that's it. Why don't you try it :)

You know what the greatest common divisor of Firefox, Chrome and Safari is? Internet Explorer 6.

That's right Jack, all the functionality you're using in a browser is the one Internet Explorer 6 has. Sadly, most of the people using the browsers you mentioned do the same.

The world you live in is the cave mentioned by Plato. You have never went outside and see there's so much things a browser can do, you're content in your small little world thinking "meh, my browser already has anything I would ever need".

Wrong. You could use a better interaction with the browser, you could use some extra features to make your life easier and stop checking your webmail when you have pop3 and smtp. You could have a lot of things if you would just come out of the cave.

Sure thing, Firefox has the extensions, but Chrome does not. You're missing out on a lot of functionality that you never knew existed.

How are you supposed to know that there is such a thing since you usually search for an extension when you KNOW you need (such as ad-block) but it never occurs to you that you might use a neat clever feature? You're stuck in the dark because you don't know light exists.

Now I’m depressed.

I never said that I will never use extensions. I never said that I will never use Opera. I have Safari, Chrome, Firefox and Opera on my HDD and ready to go. If somebody on HN or anywhere else tells me about a cool new extension or a cool new feature I will of course want to try it out. I love doing that, I really do!

It’s just that for my day to day usage I have until now always returned to vanilla Safari [+]. That’s just how it is and I can’t change it. That’s how I like it best.

[+] The only extension I have installed is ClickToFlash.

@ugh - nevermind, it's a miscommunication issue; I'm sorry for my harsh tone. Whatever browser you use try mouse gestures.

Here is a quick tutorial for Opera - http://www.opera.com/browser/tutorials/gestures/

And also in Opera you can go back/forward by using the following combos:

1. press right mouse button 2. left click 3. release right button (back)

1. press left mb 2. right click 3. release left mb (forward)

The only reason I'm not using Opera is because it doesn't support 1password... I really liked that browser, I've used it long before Firefox came out but after switching to Mac, at first Opera on Mac wasn't great and now, well it's missing 1password...

So having extensions is great news for me...

I haven't used 1password so I don't know all the features it has but Opera's Wand has password storage (fills username/password for the pages you want). Not sure if that's all you need.

Yes, I used Opera's wand before, the big plus of 1password is the fact that it works with Safari, Firefox and can be synced to my iphone... I don't want my passwords to be tied to a browser...

Also with 1password, I just tell it to generate the password for me and so I always have completely random passwords for all websites I visit...

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