Hacker News Reader

Comment by pjc50 | Hacker News Reader

> (Don't do) Performance reviews

> Trust them to produce, and if they are not producing, let them go.

If you are firing someone for performance, you have done a performance review. It's just that it might be entirely in your head or based on office gossip about who appears most productive.

You wouldn't optimise a program without a profiler, so you shouldn't make hire/fire decisions on productivity without some means of measuring productivity. I know it's hard and tends to result in stupid metrics, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted.

View on HN

Idk about the US, but I imagine it's more similar to the EU than the press suggests....

Anyway in most of the EU, by law and by convention^ people don't get fired often. When they do, it's a part of a greater process where a department is reorganized, jobs have been made redundant or somesuch. Firing individuals for below average performance is rare. It needs to be an extreme. If it is dines, it's done as part of a performance review) evaluation process with feedback, time...

The reality is that

^The convention part is important. Regardless of laws, it's very hard to operate a business that's firing a lot. Firing someone is like exiling/outlawing them, to borrow analogies from older societies.

If you try, you'll encounter a huge pile of difficulties. Moral/culture will be one. Politics will be another.

I’ve fired and been fired for sub-par performance. I’m from the EU. Its not that rare at all.

The difference is, it's rarely an on-the-spot firing (at least in the UK). There are usually a few levels of "performance improvement" / "how can we help you get back on track?" before you get anywhere near "you're goneski".

Assuming we're just talking about "not quite the best" work performance here.

It’s really expensive to fire people. Not only do you lose out on the recruiting, the training, the profiling. You will have to do it all over again. I’ve never fired anyone in my entire career in the EU. I do not understand how it’s feasible to do it willy-nilly in the USA. Can anyone tell me that? Or is it much more rare than I think?

Firing is rare in the US. Layoffs (bulk termination of many people at once) are common, and much scarier because of US's weak social safety net.

I've never fired and never been fired for sub-par performance. I'm from the EU. It must be ultra rare then.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal

Everyone is saying "EU" here, but the laws are all national, not at the level of the EU.

It also depends on how you choose to exercise your rights. Many countries have a lot of ways to push back if you are fired, but afaik they aren't automatic.

Usually each worker have management, I mean those guys to whole everybody is reported. In IT I am talking about TLs, PMs and so on. Maybe it's easier just to ask them or even better to have a a personal meeting. Nobody experienced believes in performance reviews, it's a fiction.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com