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Comment by mnm1 | Hacker News Reader

There's nothing respectable or heroic about any war. The longer we keep pushing this narrative about soldiers being heroes, the longer we get stuck in this mentality that it's somehow justified or reasonable to start wars, of which we have started so many it's almost impossible to count at this point. Despite his experiences in war and being tortured in Vietnam, he still supported torture and other hideous practices. If that's the kind of man you want to respect and call a hero, go ahead, but don't ask the rest of us to respect someone like that simply because he was a POW. I'm not sure what your definition of hero is, but mine is about as opposite of McCain as one can get.

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He never supported torture.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/John_McCain_Homeland_Securi...

Any man or woman that signs up to give up their life for their country is a hero. Period. Soldiers don’t start wars. Soldiers, however, many a times, do give ultimate sacrifices in them.

So we should have not fought Hitler?

Also he did NOT support torture and was an author of a bill that was passed that forbid it.

You are idealistic with no understanding of the facts.

He voted for the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and against the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008. At best his record on torture is mixed and clearly despite all his talk against torture and even his sponsoring of one anti torture amendment (McCain Detainee Amendment to the Defense Appropriations bill for 2005) he still supported it later in his career. Those are facts. You haven't provided a single fact in your response, just an insult that alludes to unknown alleged "facts."

McCain was a war hawk who voted for both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars amongst others and constantly supported overthrowing other governments by force. To support a war like Iraq was unconscionable. Everyone knew the allegations that led to to it were bullshit without having any access to classified information. It seems the idea of a hero here in America is one who goes and sends others to die in war for no reason, without thought, without any consideration for the massive loss of human life that entails. These aren't wars of self defense like WWII, to address your question above, they are wars of aggression, hate, cruelty, and racism. Yeah that sure makes a real hero, killing and sending others to kill for a hateful, cruel agenda.

"There's nothing respectable or heroic about any war." -mnm1

Yet, you are okay with WII? Which is it? Are the those that fought in a war you agree with not Heroic?

As to the 2nd Iraq war - A large number of good people were mislead by President G.W.Bush. There is no proof that Senator McCain had any knowledge beyond the reset of the members of the Senate. Furthermore I would argue that having fought in a war, having been tortured for 5 years, he more then others would have a very clear understand the consequences and cost of his vote.

All of you arguments deal in absolutes in a world that has way to many shades of grey. Ideally I agree with you - all war is wrong. Unfortunately not everyone in the world shares your view, and there are still bad people. Senator McCain was far from perfect, but is he quite distance from the monster you make him out to be.

There's nothing respectable or heroic about WWII either. I did not imply that there was. It was, for the US, a war of self defense and that's the only justification I can accept for war. It doesn't make heroes out of the people that fought it either, however. It was just as dark and horrible an event for the allies as it was for the axis. Both sides were dragged down into the ugliest pit of human existence possible. Unfortunately, it only takes one side to drag every other side down into such a dark abyss and turn men into savages. It's horrible that this ever happens; it's even more horrible when it's your own country dragging down everyone else into this dark abyss by starting wars. The worst is when men like McCain lead us into this abyss without logic or reason. Why were we in Iraq when it was Saudis trained in Afghanistan that attacked us? Just because they are Arabs with darker skin and a different religion. That's not much different than the insane reasons Hitler had for starting his war. It's despicable and unforgivable in both cases.

The fact that you see the brave men that ran out of the landing craft on Normandy into a hail of machine gun fire as unheroic just...sorry, we have nothing more to talk about.

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