1. For those who have done it, how long does it take to learn a new keyboard layout (e.g. DVORAK, others) and exceed your previous speed.
2. Is switching back and forth easy to do (like speaking two languages fluently)?
The hardest part of learning a keyboard layout is the first week. During this week you cannot type on the autopilot at all (even my qwerty skills were fucked up).
I recommend starting learning a new layout during a holiday because it will break your productivity. For training, you can use http://klavaro.sourceforge.net/en/index.html, which has support for Colemak.
After 4 weeks of typing more than one hour per day, I managed to hit the 50 WPM at Colemak. It is also important to type 30 minutes per day using qwerty during this 4 weeks so that you will not lose your qwerty skills.
Alternatively many people use Dvorak with QWERTY keyboard shortcut locations.
I'm in the process of switching to an Ergodox keyboard and I logged all my keystrokes (on a regular QWERTY keyboard) for about a week. My work was maybe 80% writing code and 20% writing emails, Slack messages etc. Here are the top 10 most frequently used keys:
Key # %
---------+------+---
Down 14139 11.3
Up 11514 9.2
Backspace 6748 5.3
Right 6529 5.2
Space 5409 4.3
Left 4908 3.9
Tab 4847 3.8
R Ctrl 4665 3.7
E 3937 3.1
L Shift 3824 3.0
The rest of the keys are pretty much in the same position in all the layouts discussed here. Therefore I think significant speed improvements for programmers can only come with a more radical re-think of a keyboard layout.
Switch for comfort.
Repeating in full a comment I made 5 months ago [0]
I learnt during the summer after the first year of university, when I was working on a small summer project at the university. It can't have been more than two months, probably more like one. I didn't touchtype Qwerty, although I could type fairly fast while looking at the keyboard.
I made the "tent" showing the keyboard layout, as described at [1].
It's simply more comfortable to use Dvorak. The clearest way I have to show that is by tapping fingers on the table: it's much easier to go small-to-large than large-to-small. On Dvorak, that means typing digraphs like sn, st, sh, nt, nh, th is optimized (Qwerty equivalent: ;l ;k ;j lk lj kj — what a waste of easy-to-type combinations!). The reverse combinations are rarer in English: ht, hn, hs, tn, ts, ns.
All the rare letters are on the bottom row, so the most awkward movement — bottom row then top row — is minimized.
Added to that, hand alternation is much better, which is also more comfortable. Taking my first sentence, "after" and "was" are all on one hand, and trigrams like "ear" (learnt), "rst" (first), "ect" (project) are common, yet ugly to type on Qwerty.
If you can touchtype Qwerty, type this to simulate typing the first two sentences:
G pdaolk hfoglu kjd ;fmmdo aykdo kjd ygo;k tdao sy flg.do;gktw ,jdl G ,a; ,sovglu sl a ;mapp ;fmmdo roscdik ak kjd flg.do;gkte Gk ialqk ja.d nddl msod kjal k,s mslkj;w rosnanpt msod pgvd slde
To remain closer to the defaults of the world, I've never bothered with Colemak or similar. I can add Dvorak to any computer I use, which I will occasionally do if someone asks me to use their computer to take minutes in a meeting or similar.
That said, I would guess actual improvements to be slim. I am learning a new layout to make me happy.
https://xsznix.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/screen-shot-2016-...
2. I use QWERTY on mobile devices, Dvorak on standard keyboards, and RSTHD on split ergo keyboards, and I can switch between all of them without any hassle. It helps if you use a different keyboard form factor for each layout, but even if not, I don't think it's difficult to maintain adequate fluency on QWERTY when you need to use someone else's computer.
1. It took me two weeks to get to ~35wpm, and it was absolutely grueling. The next two months I ramped up to ~80. Now I'm slightly faster than my top qwerty speed (qwerty is incredibly hard to type in dvorak btw), but the investment is worth it. Typing is very easy, and I no longer have RSI issues.
2. I use my family's computer from time to time. There's a break in period / your brain literally flips. It's a very unique experience. I think if I switched more often I'd be able to maintain performance in both.
Thinking a little more about it, learning to type in a new format was such a strange and enjoyable experience. You feel your brain struggling and one day something just kind of clicks, a dam breaks way, and your fingers float above the keyboard, the words appearing on the screen and you're not sure how.
I ask because if it's ergonomics, you may want to explore an ergo board, e.g. the Kinesis Advantage: https://jakeseliger.com/2011/07/17/further-thoughts-on-the-k.... There are others as well, like Ergodox-EZ.
1. Judging by the times I've tried TypeRacer, I've never exceeded my old speed. But that's OK; I changed because I was having problems with my wrists, and I was worried about my career. That destroyed any interest I might once have had in typing quickly.
2. Yes - but I switched to Dvorak not long after I started using a split keyboard, and I think that really helped keep the muscle memory for the layouts separate. No problem for me typing Dvorak on spit keyboards, and no problem typing QWERTY on non-split keyboards. I can still type at ~70wpm on a non-split QWERTY keyboard, and people that have seen me do that are typically surprised to later find out it's not what I'm used to.
QWERTY on a split keyboard, I can do, but I have to look at my hands while I do it. Dvorak on a non-split keyboard, I find very difficult. But luckily I basically never have to do it.
(One thing I would also add: it's good to be able to type fast, because that lets you rattle out whatever it is you currently have in mind. Don't let anybody tell you that being able to type quickly isn't at least sometimes useful. But, in general, you can get away with typing a lot slower than you think.)
Advice for learning: Start with basic typing exercises that drill in the muscle memory. Then switch over and keep a keyboard layout visible. Switch back to QWERTY when you need to. When you rarely need to look up letters but still need to think sometimes, switch permanently and try not to switch back to QWERTY.
On keyboard shortcuts: while some such as copy and paste are worse because they involve the right hand, I find many keyboard shortcuts are actually better on Dvorak despite being designed with QWERTY in mind. J and K for instance (think vi navigation) are really convenient. There are a bunch I feel that way about, and that's in addition to other characters used in programming often being more convenient as well, such as brackets/braces and hyphen/underscore.
On fluency: I definitely have a hard time switching back to QWERTY. Funny story: an interview didn't go well once when I had to complete a programming task on one of their computers. It was Windows (I use Mac) with a QWERTY layout! I must've looked like I didn't know how to use a computer. But I'm typing this paragraph in QWERTY and it's doable. Most of what makes me feel slower on QWERTY is just that it's so much less comfortable to type in than Dvorak.
Unfortunately, at the time I was moving between several computers, some of which weren’t mine, and I could switch them all over. This daily switching back and forth was painful.
In the end, it wasn’t really worth it. It took at least a month to get back to being able to type without mistakes with QWERTY, and the first few days were torture. Took months to get back to my old speed.
You know that scene from Space Jam where the NBA player looses his talent, tries to play with some kids on the street, gets crushed, and wanders away in confusion and sadness... well, that was pretty much me. https://youtu.be/mWeII9xkTnw
If you are going to need to switch to qwerty often and you already type at 130 WPM I would not recommend learning another layout.
My speed is about the same as it was, but I wasn't looking for more speed.
I used Dvorak exclusively and lost the ability to type on qwerty keyboards. This became pretty inconvenient, so I re-learned qwerty, but then I couldn’t type in dvorak any more.
A while later I practiced dvorak again and have been able to switch back and forth without issue ever since (even though I don’t use dvorak very often now).
I found that dvorak wasn’t actually that good for programming due to the positioning of punctuation, math, and auxiliary keys. It’s also annoying for gaming or using hotkeys in general (especially copy + paste).
I learned Dvorak in 2005 or 2006. I spent about 4-5 hours, over 2 evenings with a free typing tutor program. After that it took me about 2 weeks internalize it. At that point I was probably the same speed or faster than before.
After that I used QWERTY for a few hours a week for the next few years. For public, and other peoples computers. After a little practice it was easy to switch back and forth without issue.
Around 2012, I stopped having to use public and other peoples computers so I stopped using QWERTY but maybe once or twice a year.
As of now I can with a little bit of mental effort switch back to using QWERTY, but nowadays I often miss type a few keys in QWERTY. I am slowly loosing it.
Some related observations:
For the longest time I have been forced to use QWERTY for all onscreen keyboards like my cell phone and tablets. Recently I got a Chromebook, and it let me have onscreen Dvorak. Turns out my brain is currently wired for onscreen QWERTY. I'm not sure if I really should put any effort into learning an onscreen keyboard.
I can type both Mandarin Pinyin, and the Japanese equivalent. For whatever reason setting up these input systems hard locks QWERTY underneath them. I have tried to do the mental gymnastics to use QWERTY to write in these other scripts and it is just too frustrating. I end up finding a way to switch it.
My tips are: print your new layout and stick it in your FOV for where you usually type. I used the new layout on my phone, which helped with memorising placement. Try and mentally map old keys -> new keys, so that until you have the muscle memory there, you’ll at least know it cerebrally.
It took me about a month to get comfortable and stop making mistakes and I switched back and forth regularly for the first two years (working in IT).
Now I mostly use Dvorak and when I switch it's not a problem but my typing speed in Qwerty is about a third slower.
Having done it, I'm happy with it but I probably would have learned Colemak instead because it's closer to Qwerty and would make those infrequent switches easier.
I constantly switch between dvorak and qwerty (as much as 4-5 times in a minute), and it takes no effort, I'm more or less equally comfortable with both of them.
I'm also a designer, and I didn't bother relearning the shortcuts on design programs on dvorak, so I switch back to qwerty with a shortcut when I use them, than switch back to dvorak for typing.
If you switch to dvorak, I also suggest giving up using arrow keys and using emacs/vi keymaps for moving the cursor around, it will be much more efficient.
I really suggest taking a look at programmer dvorak[0] if most of the typing you do is writing code. It's more efficient and relaxed to use commonly typed characters ( &[{}(=*)+]!;,.:<> ), at the expense of having to use shift for numbers.
Although I could type faster and much more comfortable on Dvorak I regret ever making the change, I feel I am still not as fast on QWERTY as I was before I switched to Dvorak. I make a lot of mistakes typing now and can't seem get much faster or more accurate with practice.
It was very difficult for me to do both or switch between the two - I was much better at Dvorak until I gave it up. My QWERTY was prbly 30 wpm max while using Dvorak. It helps to switch context or use different keyboards for switching. I think I got to 90 wpm Dvorak, QWERTY is now around 65-70.
I have problems typing comfortably and motor learning / coordination issues that might make me unusual, but I have read that fluency with both is rare and very difficult.
Oh shortcuts were more annoying in Dvorak, only other issue aside from swipe text.
@GatorD42: I hear a decent proportion of people who complain or fear that keyboard shortcuts won't work well in Dvorak. But in my own experience, I have no problems whatsoever (even common keys like Ctrl+C/V/X/Z/W/A/S/T). One caveat though, is that many shortcuts are on the right side and prefer using Right Ctrl - but some machines like the entire Microsoft Surface tablet/laptop series omit Right Ctrl which makes keyboard shortcuts absolutely infuriating.
I switched from QWERTY to Dvorak over the course of 8~ months and attained 120~ WPM with no discernible difference in comfort. I then switched from Dvorak to Colemak over the course of 3~ months. I was back to 130-150 WPM but lacked any ability to "burst" at faster speeds for short periods of time. I felt slightly more comfort typing in Colemak than I did QWERTY/Dvorak but it interrupted workflow too much and I ended up switching back to QWERTY. After my experiences, I firmly believe any significant benefits people get from switching keyboard layouts isn't from switching keyboard layouts, but rather, from learning how to type properly. This goes for comfort, speed, and accuracy. I know of very, very few people who I would define as "excellent" typists (>120WPM) claiming any benefit from switching layouts.
Switching back and forth for Colemak/QWERTY is easy for me, I struggle with Dvorak as I am out of practice ("use it or lose it").
Learn to Stenotype if you truly want speed [0]. If you switch keyboard layouts it should only be because you never really "learned how to type" or if you feel slight comfort gains are worth breaking existing workflows over.
On Mobile I use a QWERTY layout for English and flick input for Japanese.
E: Also I believe there are studies that "micro-movements" are more harmful in the long term, causing more RSI. So Colemak's smaller, more comfortable movements may have been long-term harmful. I can't find these studies but I faintly remember reading about this. If anyone has any proof one way or the other I'd love to see it.
As for switching back and forth, I can still use QWERTY, but it feels awkward like "dancing with two left feet". I stumble, pause, make mistakes, and correct them. But numerically speaking, I still type 60+ WPM on QWERTY when I need to, despite the discomfort. More details in https://www.nayuki.io/page/i-type-in-dvorak
Your brain will unlearn the touch position of QWERTY, and looking down at a QWERTY, keyboard when you type will throw you off big time at first.
Eventually you’ll get used to looking at a QWERTY keyboard and typing Dvorak, which is interesting (my mind maps different letters between the layouts).
You can relearn QWERTY fairly easily once you’re confident in Dvorak, and you’ll be able to type in both, but I don’t ever find the need to type in QWERTY. When helping a coworker out on their computer I’d just switch their settings and switch back if I was going to be working there for awhile. Additionally you can get a WASD / CODE keyboard which has a hardware Dvorak dip switch, which is in Dvorak outputting to a system expecting QWERTY.
Switching between the two was a little difficult if I went into autopilot, but was manageable.
The worst part of the experience was if anyone else touch my keyboard I would have to explain to them that it isn't qwerty, and wish them best of luck. Most of the people didn't understand why I would do such a evil thing to my keyboard. After a while it became such a thing that I actually went back to qwerty just so I wouldn't have to listen to people talk about it.
I actually had a difficult time going back and forth for a while. Eventually my brain decided that a heavy mechanical keyboard (my model m at home) was dvorak, and lighter non-mechanical kbs (school) were qwerty.
I had to switch over to qwerty to do pair programming easily a few years back. Finally got to the point where I could type interchangeably, but I'm worried that my muscle memory will lose qwerty again over time, now that I use it less.
2. Switching back and forth was NOT easy. Whenever I used a new (qwerty) computer I would fumble and it would take minutes before I could type normally at all! Perhaps if one switches between two layouts often it becomes easier.
2. It probably was at the beginning but after using Dvorak for so long, I need to long at the keys while I type on a QWERTY layout. I suppose you could keep both up if you had some reason to do so.
2. Switching is easy; I switch all the time at work. Windows makes me login with qwerty (you get what you pay for? :P).
You may never type 130wpm on dvorak/colemak/&c but life is too short for qwerty.
I tried that switch to DVORAK before. After a few weeks, I could blind-type slowly in DVORAK, but whenever I went a bit faster, my QWERTY routines would kick in.
Interestingly, I also forgot how to spell many English words. It turns out I only remembered how to type those words on a QWERTY keyboard.
I find it very difficult to switch back and forth, but not impossible. Mostly that just means my secondary layout is pretty error-prone.
Edit: I get about 140wpm with qwerty and similar with azerty, but switching between them takes some time to get up to speed. Maybe because they are so similar.. :)
He was one of the better programmers on the team. Whether this was because he was forced to make good decisions to limit the amount of code on the screen or not, who knows. I think the only critique I had was that his comments were... a little lacking.
I have since switched to a split ergonomic keyboard (Diverge 3) and adjusted the layout somewhat (kept qwerty, but put all the modifier keys in custom locations). That took me about a month to exceed my previous speed. Typing on standard keyboards when needed is not a problem either.
I never cared to measure my typing speed though.
Also, I found that putting a small touchpad^ in a thumb-accessible area (near where a laptop touchpad would be) is a good enough replacement for a mouse.
For example, you can program the keyboard in such a way that pressing X+A sends Ctrl+C keys to the OS, where X is a custom modifier button (Not Ctrl but a separate button that you assign for this use case) and A is, well, whatever other button on the keyboard you want to use for this, not necessarily "C".
Or you can have a single button programmed to send Alt+Tab, or... whatever, really, the firmware is very flexible.
Yeah, I know about remapping and that's not going to happen. What a nightmare! But the more I think about my idea the worse it sounds. What are the 12 most common shortcut keys? It's hard to narrow them down to that, and I'm not sure everybody would agree. Still, ergonomically it would be an interesting challenge.
FWIW the WhatPulse app can tell you that (for your own typing) e.g. https://i.imgur.com/SuPLw9h.png
I used its data to drive my custom layout decisions.
around 2007, i broke my right thumb by hitting a pothole and that put my typing (and all my bad habits) in a weird spot. At that point i decided to try one-handed dvorak and failed, but i found that two handed dvorak was very doable, so i spent about two weeks of my convalescence doing http://web.archive.org/web/20040803054502/http://www.gigliwo... on and off and watching movies. About a week in, i swapped all my keycaps to make the transition easier, but found that i missed having the home row nubs on f/j (u/h in dvorak) because at this point i had started actually relying on them for positioning as i had finally learned to touch type.
at this point, about two weeks in, i was solidly able to to use my modded keyboard, but i still peeked at the keys occasionally so that i would re-position my hands correctly at rest. it took me about a full month of occasional typing in dvorak while i was in physical therapy to "make the switch" mentally.
this probably marks my eleventh year typing in dvorak, by far the first few months were the most awkward, especially since at the time i was using vi and some of its key commands are optimized for qwerty while others have semantic meanings. the most annoying thing in those early months is not so much the letter positions, but recalling where all the special characters live: .,'-;/=[] are all characters that you possibly associate with certain regions of the keyboard, but in dvorak they are a punctuation-diaspora, scattered across the edges of the keyboard. by around six months in, i think i was back to my regular typing speed, but i believe i exceeded my qwerty speed easily a year into dvorak simply because i had finally learned to properly touch type and had developed muscle memory for all keys.
how hard is switching back? like you, i wondered about being keymap-bilingual, but it turns out to not be all that important day-to-day. i definitely type noticeably slower when i go back to qwerty keyboard (usually because i'm using a friend's computer). in practice this happens remarkably infrequently. one of the strange things of learning dvorak but leaving your keycaps in qwerty is that i look at a `t` but i "see" a `p`. it's strange, it's the closest thing i have experienced to having a sixth sense. because ios doesn't allow you to remap its keyboard to dvorak, i use qwerty there all the time and it's not at all disorienting.
One place, however, where you do need to remain somewhat sharp is pc gaming, where games inconsistently pick up custom keymaps (i.e. in js this is the distinction b/w evt.key and evt.code). in most cases, you just end up using qwerty because it's a pain to remap (this was especially true for games like dota2, but starcraft 2's grid layout remedies much of that). again, many apps like illustrator/photoshop also have keyboard shortcuts located for physical reasons and less for logical "this letter is short for that idea" reasons, which can make the switch harder
that said, it's doable and i believe in you! at the very least, you'll become a better typer and develop better habits from your time in dvorak. good luck!