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Comment by Lightbody | Hacker News Reader

Since this comment thread involved a lot of people talking about their smart devices, I’ll just put out a PSA: don’t bother with cheaper zwave light switches and dimmers :) if you’re looking for a high quality decent price option, just get Lutron Caseta. Or if you want higher end / better style, get Lutron’s RA 2 Select hub (basically Caseta++) for $100 more and then you can use Caseta dimmers or higher end Maestro dimmers that have a nicer interface (but cost 2x).

I’m speaking from experience: I put in a bunch of $35 zwave switches but they are physically worse (ex: thicker metal margins that make fitting wall plates more awkward) and they are more painful to work with the software (ex: setting high/low dimmer trims is awkward compared to Lutron’s in-app approach). I wish I had just gone with the $60 Casetas switches (plus remote if white is your color). The price difference is well worth it.

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Lutron devices don't form a mesh network, though?

And a limit of only one range extender.

And only 50 devices?

http://www.casetawireless.com/Pages/faqs.aspx

I'll stick with Z-Wave, even though it's not perfect. And it's true that there's some terrible Z-Wave hardware but there's also better (and pricier) gear.

I've tried both Z-Wave and Insteon, and have settled on Insteon. It forms a mesh network over both powerline and RF and it's been extremely reliable so far. With Z-Wave, I had quite a few range problems.

> over both powerline

Ack. Please don't tell me this isn't a widely supported thing. powerline communication wreaks havoc on RF spectrum, esp in the HF range.

zwave is unfortunately VERY dependent on the devices you use.

If you get high quality devices across your whole network, it works great. It's fast, it's reliable, and it'll work over pretty long distances with the mesh networking stuff.

But even one shitty device can bring a whole network down, not to mention that you tend to gamble the first time you buy a device if you are gonna get a good one or not.

Things are MUCH better now if you stick to zwave-plus only as the zwave people are taking a much more "hands on" approach to ensuring that you can't sell garbage with the zwave name on it, and they've added a ton of really nice improvements to the system.

But unless you are just starting out it's gonna be tough to get a full zwave-plus network.

Caseta is 50 devices. RA2 Select is 100 + 4 extenders and is backwards compatible with Caseta dimmers, so that's your upgrade path.

After that, you go with RadioRA 2 and an installer, which is no fun for DIY.

The two biggest drawbacks of Caseta for me were the vendor lock-in, and the cheap feeling switches.

With Z-wave you can pick your hub and devices. If things don't work how you want out of the box, chances are someone has already written the code you need for whatever hub you're using. If not, you can write it yourself.

I am currently using (and pretty happy with) all GE switches with SmartThings hub (soon Vera?), Schlage Locks, Visonic door sensors, Ecobee Thermostats and Harmony remotes for control/automation overrides.

I solve my vendor lock in problem by ask having SmartThings. In fact, I have a zwave Schlage lock. My point wasn’t to go with Lutron for everything, but that when it comes to dimmers I haven’t found anything better.

Caseta is the way to go.

I HAD a mix of Elgato, iDevices, Belkin, and Insignia switches and outlets, added ad-hoc based on promotional pricing and free time.

It was an unreliable mish-mash with varying levels of compatibility with iOS, Android, and Alexa. Seeing or hearing "The device is not responding" was common.

I scrapped it all and went Caseta for everything, giving every device a "one last chance" and swapping it out with a Caseta device if it failed to do what I told it to do. My home is now 100% Caseta. I haven't had an unscheduled outage since the the hub was installed.

This stuff is going to be in your walls for years. Pay the extra $25 per device.

Also, throw your wire nuts in the trash and use Wago lever connectors every time you unscrew a wall plate to replace something.

I used Elgato devices, I would have got more pleasure from burning my cash. Biggest waste of time I've ever experienced in my life.

Thank you. A few minutes ago, I had never heard of Wago. And now I have the urge to replace every wire nut in the house.

Wagos look nice and elegant, but can be minorly controversial in the USA:

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricians/comments/1tefko/why_yo...

I’ve had the opposite experience. Just had a Caseta switch installed to control some LED recessed lighting.

* the switch itself feels very flimsy and low quality.

* dimming only sort of works.

* the control is extremely laggy. Hit the buttons and wait up to a second before something happens.

* sometimes, the lights just don’t turn on. I’ll watch the LEDs on the switch light up, and then turn off. And then try again. And fail again...

I’ve had it a week and I’m ready to throw it out a window.

Strange. Definitely haven't had any of the lag issues or random on/off issues. Bummer.

The dimming could be two things:

1) The high/low trim may need to be adjusted, which is IMO way way easier on Lutron than others.

2) If you have LED bulbs, the brand makes a huge huge difference. FWIW I found that Parmida LED retrofit kits are the best, by far. No buzzing and dims down to 1% (most are 10%).

As for the buttons, I agree actually. That's the one thing I like about some of my zwave switches. BUT, even better than both are the Lutron Maestro buttons, which you can get for ~$125 if you go with RA2 Select (vs Caseta). They are really nice.

I can’t speak to caseta, but I would highly recommend RadioRa2 from lutron.

The signals are flawless and continue to work even if there are otherwise problems with my raspi. ClearConnect (the wireless protocol) has its own spectrum and doesn’t interfere with anything else in my house that I have found, which sets it apart from all other wireless switch ecosystems that I know of. There is a wide range of dimmers for all types of loads (even very small led loads and fan loads) and physical remote controls. The pylutron library that homeassistant uses is solid - there’s room for improvement, but that just makes it more interesting from a hobby perspective. I also like that there’s no visual difference between wireless and “normal” maestro switches, so everything will look consistent even if you don’t go all in on wireless.

It took a few hours of my life to get certified and access the configuration software for radiora2, but I think it was worth it.

Lutron doesn’t pay me :) I’ve just found it to be a great platform to hack on. It is expensive but it’s a bit cheaper second hand.

Can you tell me how much the hub cost? The RA2 Select hub is $249 and the main difference (besides fewer devices and extenders) compared to RadioRA2 is that it’s “programmed” through the same Caseta Android/iOS apps vs the higher end / certified-only RadioRA2 and HomeWorksQS systems.

Caseta is a fantastic product. Works well, looks great. Lutron switches in general have a high-end "feel" when you press them, and these are no exception.

That said, I went with Insteon switches in my current place to save a few bucks--they're ~$37.5/switch in a 5 pack [0] which adds up pretty quickly.

I've had them for about a 18 months now with no issues. The Android app is pretty terrible, but gets the job done. Alexa integration works well with their hub. I've added a few Insteon outlets, fan controllers, and motion sensors over the last year as well; all solid.

[0] https://www.smarthome.com/insteon-switchlinc-dimmer-white-5-...

My problem with Caseta is all of Lutron’s smart switches have INDREDIBLY flimsy physical buttons. A $35 General Electric ZWave switch is actually pretty sturdy, yet paying 2x as much for Caseta gets a device that feels far cheaper. Lutron is generally considered a lower quality brand for their non-smart switches and outlets, and that does seem to apply to the physical build quality of their smart switches as well.

And if you use them a lot, I can only imagine they’ll be like the display models at Home Depot / Lowe’s: Lutron Caseta buttons wobbling loosely as if they’re about to fall off, while GE rocker style switch is just fine.

Flimsy isn't quite what I'd describe -- but I agree that the four buttons are clumsy and that my lower cost zwave buttons are nicer in some ways. But I haven't found any zwave switch that ties nicely into my wall plates as cleanly as Lutron dimmers.

My solution for when I want a really nice sturdy single button is Lutron Maestro dimmers, which are even nicer (but now 2X the Caseta costs).

The range of the smart hub is what concerns me. I see you can buy the plug-in dimmer switch to extend, but only one is allowed per hub. Otherwise the reliability of Caseta is attractive. Do you also have the hub integrated with other things like a thermostat? I'm curious as to how that's working out.

Z-wave is designed to be repeated by any device with constant power. So door locks won't act as repeaters, but switches, plugs, light sockets, etc. will.

The home-assist docs link to this blog post [1], which is a great walk through on some common pitfalls when building a zwave network.

1. https://drzwave.blog/2017/01/20/seven-habits-of-highly-effec...

Thanks - I'm aware of this. My questions were on Caseta and his/her use.

Range has been pretty solid for me, in a pretty good sized home. But you can also go with RA2 Select and get 4 range extenders, which should make it a non issue for most people.

Just put in a bunch of Caseta dimmers this week and agree. I wish they had the same design as their other dimmers(one large button, rocker for dim) but they're still a great product regardless.

Consider upgrading to RA 2 Select ($250 hub) someday. Then you can install their nicer dimmers (Maestro), though they also cost 2x the Caseta dimmers so it gets pricey.

HomeSeer is also very good.

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