If you stay in the office any longer, I’ll start charge you rent
ayende.com
ayende.com
Then I read the CEOs reply after being called out for it on Twitter: https://twitter.com/larbysamirouche/status/10314168074526351... If you don't want to look at twitter:
"Update: @dhh Nobody @GitHub cares about your tweets. The post expired. Focus on your irrelevant development framework, failed career as a race car driver, or Basecamp, which as you know, has no future and has been replaced by much better alternatives that are highly innovative."
@dhh created Ruby On Rails
No wonder their website is still "under construction". Who funds these kind of narcissistic idiots?
> @larbysamirouche is clever to post a job ad that weeds out lazy developers, and genius to get them to tweet it out. I’ve hired devs who voluntarily work 60+ hrs bc that’s what they truly enjoy doing. They get paid for their work, and I wish I had more employees like them!
Can't believe it is real.
I'd call a guy who can even try to be a race car driver in his spare time immensely successful.
Unless I'm misreading, he placed first-in-class at Le Mans a few years ago. SUre, his racing career never _took off_, but I wouldn't call that any sort of failure.
It also involved walking around 6p-7p and “kicking out” others. Very rare was anyone else there on the weekends with me.
Do I regret it? No.
Would I do it again? Hell no.
I have some colleagues around me who work more than I do, for no good reason - they don't get pay more because of this, some vague promise never put on paper/email that maybe yearly bonus will reflect that (it rarely does), or they might get a raise (they rarely do), or even get promoted (happened like once in past 6 years). Surprisingly, their private life ain't very rich, they definitely don't compensate "quantity with quality".
The remaining life that you have - be it next 30 or 60 years, NOW are the best times to enjoy it. You will not get healthier or stronger over time, you will not have more free time or motivation. You can't put a price on a life lived well. What you definitely can do is having regrets later, when its too late.
I signed a contract for $X salary for Y hours of work. If I work 1.5Y I never got paid $1.5X. That's a lesson most developers need to internalize.
https://twitter.com/larbysamirouche/status/10314168074526351...
https://www.scribd.com/document/153765712/Class-Action-Lawsu...
I saw this guy Ryan Eagle[0] and man I just don’t think I’ve ever not liked anyone as much as I now dislike him.
[0] https://twitter.com/realryaneagle/status/1031541248451125248...
[...]
> I’m assuming there is no such upside.
So which is it? :)
>Based on the job posting and the interaction of the CEO on twitter, I’m going to assume that this job pay six to nine times more than the average developer can make, because otherwise I can’t really figure out why anyone would work in such a place.
And,
>For this job posting, again based solely on the text and the CEO’s behavior, I’m assuming there is no such upside.
The first quote is a complete enclosed thought about how for such a large downside there must be a large upside. It sets up the rest of the article.
The second quote comes much later in the article after he's explored why he thinks the 60+ work week is such a bad thing and given examples of careers where it is prevalent and that in most cases come with an upside to balance it. He's returning to the starting assumption and coming to a conclusion for the article based on all the points he's made in it including that the behaviour of the CEO makes it unlikely in his opinion that the job really will pay the employee back for all they give up to work a 60+ hour week.
This isn't a contradiction you've just smashed together two sentence fragments without considering the context that led up to them.
I think the focus needs to be on setting a reasonable baseline and encouraging productivity without sacrificing well-being or the work/life balance.
edit: I think maybe I wasn't clear about my last point. I'm very much on the life side of the work/life balance. I'm okay with an employee who puts in 35 hours but is meeting/exceeding expectations. In fact, I encourage it. It's up to the manager and the individual to have an understanding of what's expected.
This is sad to read. 40 hours is the max unless you are paying overtime.
Reviewing for abuse is of course correct and good behaviour, but your assumption seems to be that people putting in that amount of hours are probably going to be unproductive.
Is that correct, or have I misinterpreted you?
I don't think that hours are the first or only thing by which an employee can be judged. It's more about setting a standard and allowing the manager to monitor and enforce that based on the individual.
My experience might be a bit jaded. I work for a company that is "small", very close (many 15+ year employees). So, time spent "in the office" doesn't necessarily mean we're locked to our chairs and keyboards.
To give myself as an example: I work out 3-4 times a week, spend my time effectively reading books, playing the piano regularly and spend some quality time with my wife. These activities I would not be able to do would I work consistently 60+ hours a week. Nonetheless, it has had and continues to have a profound positive impact on my energy levels, motivation, communication and creative reasoning.
Unfortunately, minimum hours requirements need to exist in some businesses to set the expectations. It's up to the manager on how to enforce that. If I have a employee that is clearly meeting project deadlines and is a positive impact in the company, I'm going to be less scrutinous on their hours. But, that person can't just skate by on 30 hours. I've seen far to many culture/team issues arise from somebody who is productive on paper but doesn't put in a "fair" amount of hours compared to other employees. "They work more than you" doesn't always go over well with other employees.
My point was about finding the balance between what the business needs and what the employee needs. Your point about autonomy (ie trust) is paramount to all of this.
You mean good candidate for burnout.
Most of these people are taking the hit for the extra hours for some kind 'added value', which this company hopes to compete with maybe? They just seem like a shitty marketing company though?
I consider it supply and demand, that there are places out there not demanding more than 40 hours a week for the same job.
if my employer is tracking everything i do and asking me to log time against tickets/projects etc etc . . . yet doesn't expect me to be intentional about defending my own time/life outside of work? sorry, but it goes in both directions.
It's more about finding that balance of what the business needs and what the employee needs. Setting standards and expectations is important so that there's very little left to question or ambiguity if an issue ever comes up. BUT, it's up to the manager to decide if there's other factors outside of hours worked that contribute to productivity. I doubt that I'd ever write up or fire somebody for putting in 35 hours and is meeting project/productivity requirements.
I lean more towards the life side of the work/life balance. The company I currently work for has purchased vacations for employees who took little or no time off. Not out of policy, but out of need.