Cisco ‘secured visas for foreign workers instead of hiring US citizens’: report

Hypothetically, if you were a Machiavellian hiring manager:

You would also prefer a foreigner on a visa because they would have less freedom to leave the company than an equally paid employee who wasn't worried that quitting a job would risk being forced out of the country.

Also this would make the foreigner more worried about the consequences of being terminated for unsatisfactory performance.

All companies I know pay less to visa holders for following reasons and even lesser if you are Indian or Chinese national.

- They have to spend resources worth $10K for visa transfer. It is higher for visa petition. - they have to spend addtional $3k per year for renewals. - Processing an EB2/EB3 petition costs around $30k for the company in resources.

I think it is unfair to even expect that Cisco must match penny to penny the salary.

I've worked at many tech cos and this is very common. Companies will post jobs and even sometimes send email blasts to "help find us an Android developer!" but it's all for show in case they get audited -- they have to prove they 'tried' to hire locally before importing labor.

EDIT: Just saw your comment about $130k being a 'good salary.' HA! Not in Bay Area, not for a senior hire. That's a good salary for an engineer that's a few years out of college. Hardly competitive for anything beyond that.

It is criminal if you use and H1B and claim the talent is not available in the US. http://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/h1b.htm

"The intent of the H-1B provisions is to help employers who cannot otherwise obtain needed business skills and abilities from the U.S. workforce by authorizing the temporary employment of qualified individuals who are not otherwise authorized to work in the United States."

Consider an alternative where companies hire foreigners for their superior skills. Those people will be respected because of their talent. People value being respected and, combined with an option to immigrate (if they want it), it's possible to build good will around the world. Instead of people teaching their children "America took advantage of me, but I benefited enough to make it worth it for our family", it can be be "America gave me a great opportunity."

People know when they're being cheated and if kids grow up watching their parents get cheated by a form of government endorsed exploitation they'll respect your country less and be more susceptible to propaganda and radicalization. IMO, exploiting foreign workers is bad foreign policy and has a negative effect on the long term reputation of a country.

Shame on all the companies that do this. It's bad for the foreigners, it's bad for the locals, and, worst of all, it's bad for future generations that grow up resenting each other based on nationality.

Every time you see an article like this, make sure people understand that foreigners aren't taking our jobs. We're all being mistreated and exploited by the same greedy companies.

This sniffling condescension toward those in our society who have and continue to lose out to corporate interests who have sold out the American worker is vile. When employment and income prospects of citizens are reduced and dimmed at all levels, be it farm workers or IT gods, because corporations are importing foreigners to replace them (whether directly or indirectly) and the government is either complicit in or utterly passive toward the situation, it is entirely reasonable to be angry and feel betrayed. Early labor organizers would have long ago (hell, as recently as the mid-90s) risen up in arms over this. That organized labor utters not a peep tells us very clearly that such movements are dead.

... AT THAT PRICEPOiNT.

You are arguing that those software engineers should be available at the average price. Cisco has a net revenue of 12.8 billion and is dependent on software engineers

Allow the salaries to rise for godsake and then lets complain about “not finding good software engineers”

I would say the headline is more accurate than your revision.

What they would do is post a notice of intent to hire an H1B by posting the job listing in break rooms along with requirements that were clearly senior level and included a salary range for the job drastically below market average. No self respecting local would even bother applying. That's how they got away with claiming they couldn't find good local talent. They have no interest in competing in the local market.

The plain-as-day answer is, the business model of externalizing the costs of nationalism (protection, discounted infrastructure) and technological progress (disruption) only works if the net-benefit of that progress results in a measurable improvement in the standard of living for the majority of society whom have paid the externalization costs.

Otherwise, innovation quite clearly works as an asset-stripping mechanism; a mechanism of enslavement and subjugation.

The correct question to ask: Is Cisco's action, and what the majority of silicon valley is doing, foundationally counterproductive?

A Teacher does not teach the material, they teach the student; their job is to learn how students learn, format the material for them, and provide them with guidance, ultimately teaching them to teach themselves. They must change themselves to change the world around them.

Time and time again, I see clearly highly intelligent people like you, and they make the mistake of agrating people into numbers because they they have not learned stewardship over those less gifted, logic and reason has clouded their ability to see social systems of sacrifice.

And because of that, their designs fail. Over and Over. And they don't know why, or they become superstitious about it.

Hiring H1B's in large numbers, instead of having a scalable internal training program, is a fundamental sign of a failed system at play.

Some of those points you can’t do much about, but others are fundamentally caused by the H-1B restrictions on employees. If they were relaxed it would make the playing field a lot more even, and stop companies from abusing the program to get cheap labor.

In the case of senior roles: Because letting a college grad grow into a job that requires many years of experience, unsurprisingly, takes many years to grow in to.

As to entry-level positions I'd assume that a shortage of American candidates would be the reason. Or perhaps some employers have experienced foreign workers that seem more motivated/harder working (for instance they might have more to loose from being fired)?

> I have noticed that they pay less for h1b workers, and this is not only at Cisco, basically everywhere I have worked.

That would be a violation of H-1B requirements and seems to be why the Department of Labor is taking action against Cisco here.

> I’ve also seen the companies write job descriptions that only fit the h1b worker so they can help them get a green card.

I'm curious if you can provide an example of a job description that only fit one H-1B worker?

Also, H-1B is a non-immigrant visa, i.e. not a green card. It's a "dual intent" visa, which just means that an employer can legally file for a green card for an employee in H-1B status - it doesn't grant any immigrant benefits or a direct path to permanent residence.

> It’s sad.

If an employer is abusing the immigration system by somehow designing job descriptions for a specific person (and I'm interested in examples of that as noted above) I agree.

However, and I suspect this represents the vast majority of EB visa petitions for temporary workers, I don't find it sad if an employer sponsor a green card after someone has worked in the U.S. for many years. The H-1B visa is limited to 6 years max, after which the worker will have to leave the U.S. In most cases I'd find it quite nice if an employer makes the effort of securing a green card for an someone who has created a life for themselves in the US. It's also ususlly in the best interest of the employer, which is why they spend the time and resources to do it :)

> Finally, I believe that companies have too much power over a h1b worker. If they fire them, they only have a month to find a new job and then they have to fly home. It’s bad on all sides.

I agree fully with that sentiment, but it's unfortunately worse than you think: Technically an H-1B worker whose employment is terminated have to leave the country immediately. There's a vaguely defined policy granting some degree of lenience/grace period, but it's not a right at all.

In reality, a person in H-1B status should see every day in the US as potentially their last - at least in legal status (although very short lapses are often tolerated/accepted).

https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Cisco+Systems+Inc&job=Soft...

Cisco median pay in San Jose is $122k. This is before bonus and RSU as DOL doesn't accept those as salary. So basically median pay is around $150K

This feels like a 'race to the bottom' strategy that will work against the company in the long term.

Submitted title was "H-1B visa-reliant Cisco secured visas for foreign workers instead of US citizens"