The Charmed Life of Esther the Wonder Pig | Hacker News Reader

The Charmed Life of Esther the Wonder Pig

thewalrus.ca

46 pointsaxiomdata31614 comments

> A question still nags at me, and I pose it to the couple: “You have about fifty-eight residents now, but there are billions of animals that you can never save. Does this ever discourage you? Does it ever feel futile?”

> Jenkins looks instantly pained. His eyes well up. “Yeah, it’s tough,” he says. “That’s the hardest part. I try not to go there, because it’s overwhelming.”

Huge respect for these guys. From my perspective, nothing can be done about the animals already in the system, but the sooner we wind down the demand keeping them there, the more we'll save. Their efforts definitely help with that.

This is the quandary facing all animal activists. We have to be positive since there's proof that things are improving, but at the same time when you start thinking about the billions that are as intelligent (or some more so) than our pets and are being slaughtered, its hard not to be overcome by pessimism. But as Jenkins says, we should not dwell on that. Because besides making you pessimistic, it also hampers whatever little ability you have to contribute.

When I got started in animal rescue I was given this advise: "You can't save them all and you should not save them all. If you are going to do well in animal rescue you need to come to terms with this." Formally in rescue it is abbreviated to C4C or Capacity for Care. In a nutshell it means you don't take in more animals then you can care for.

If it doesn't wear a cape and it can't sing, it doesn't deserve to be called a wonder pig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw5SQXBIcjc&index=45&list=PL...

I have huge respect for people who do this kind of work.

I don't think I'd be able to do it - go to these factory farms and see all the suffering and only be able to rescue a few animals. I can't even watch Earthlings[0] - just one clip is enough and it paralyses me for days.

I just can't understand why we continue to support the large scale meat industry (not talking about hunting or raising and killing your own animals).

Not only are factory farmed products not healthy for us, but it's destroying the environment, creates unncessary suffering and even if you don't care about animals, it's also harmful to people working in that industry. Would you want to work in a slaughterhouse 8 hours a day - killing, gutting and hearing the screams of other sentient beings? What does that do to one's psyche?

We (engineers, designers, etc) are problem solvers - so our community should better understand that supporting the large scale meat industry just doesn't make sense anymore and instead we'd look to support alternative food sources[1] that are less desstructive on so many levels. Ethan Brown's approach is great - he's right, we won't be able to change culture where meat consumption is totally ingrained - it's better to offer an alternative that is as good or better as meat, but that doesn't require us to continue these destructive ways.

I think people in the future[2] will look back at this time and just shake their head at how we could continue supporting an industry that kills 80Billion animals / year just so we can have some short lived pleasure in our mouth (only real reason I can think of why we continue to eat meat - please correct me if I'm wrong) - the same way we shake our head at slavery, which was accepted by society in the past.

Holocaust survivor and founder of Farm - Dr Alex Hershaft[3] - compares how Nazis treated other ethnic groups to how we treat other species. To animals we are the Nazis.

Ultimately the question is, when it's not necessary for survival - how do you humanely kill a sentient being that doesn't want to be killed?

Just hope how we currently value other sentient beings won't be an example for our future AI overlords of how to behave towards us.

[0] Earthlings https://vimeo.com/209647801

[1]Beyond Meat http://www.ideacity.ca/video/ethan-brown-beyond-meat/

[2] Star Trek - 'We no longer enslave animals for food purposes' https://youtu.be/sS7NRtEJBcA?t=31s

[3] https://nonprofitchronicles.com/2017/12/05/alex-hershaft-hol...

Edit: typos

Cannot agree more with every word that you have said. Not to jump into selling mode, but I have created a social site for veganism/animal-welfare/animal-rights/cleantech called "Kind and Green News" (http://news.kindandgreenworld.com)

I would appreciate it if people like you become part of this burgeoning community and help spread the positive things that are happening in that area.

Thanks. I'll check out your site.

Interesting that my reply is being downvoted.

Why not chime in with a counter view?

What are you disagreeing with and why?

With better regulation, a centralized system of butchering is probably better for animals. Humans are evolved to eat meat. There is nothing wrong with the circle of life, nobody lives for ever and these animals are serving an important purpose.

Humans are more closely related to frugivores than anything else (just look at our teeth and intestines).

These animals die for no reason other than cultural norms.

Thanks for chiming in.

What do you mean with centralized system? Isn't this what we have now, i.e. factory farms? Are you suggesting to go even more concentrated? In what way will this be better for animals - if animals (just like us) don't want to be killed?

Also, do you have any sources that explains that we evolved to eat meat and that we have to continue to eat meat. Do you mean we can't survive or be healthy without eating meat?

I'm suggesting the problem is not the factory farms, the problem is the regulations and lack of oversight. We have pig farms producing more waste then most cities and just spraying it on nearby fields. We are at a low point for regulation, we might keep going until we get to "The Jungle" level of meatpacking, or we can turn things around and put some teeth into regulations and enforcement. I don't believe that 1000 small butchers are going to be 1000 ethical businesses. I do believe that 1 business, or 10 can be regulated with proper oversight.

And yes, animal products have essential vitamins that are difficult to get from plant based diets.

"It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity. Low intake of saturated fat and high intakes of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nuts, and seeds (all rich in fiber and phytochemicals) are characteristics of vegetarian and vegan diets that produce lower total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels and better serum glucose control. These factors contribute to reduction of chronic disease. Vegans need reliable sources of vitamin B-12, such as fortified foods or supplements."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27886704

> I'm suggesting the problem is not the factory farms

It sounds like you're suggesting to have even bigger concentration farms. Please watch the Earthlings documentary that I posted above - it highlights the realities of factory farms. Interested to get your thoughts on that.

Also, you talked about ethics, just repeating a question I had above - when it's not about survival - how do you kill a sentient being that doesn't want to be killed?

> And yes, animal products have essential vitamins that are difficult to get from plant based diets.

Do you have any sources for this? As jamesgagan posted here - the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics says a plant based diet is healthy and there are other organisations saying the same.

In addition to that, the UN urges to move to a plant-based diet, because feeding the planet on a meat based diet is not sustainable [0]

Having all this evidence, don't you think that weening off the world of a meat-based diet is the smart thing to do?

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/jun/02/un-repor...

edit: formatting

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