Comment by kilo_bravo_3 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by kilo_bravo_3 | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

>Wow, I wish I was an engineer in that era. 25 years at the same company, 3 languages over 13 years.

I work for a competitor to General Dynamics in practically the same field (as close as you can get in 2018) as Mr. Ray Livesay.

Counting the acquisition, I've been with the same company for 11 years, having worked my way up from being a technical writer to programmer to systems engineer.

When I wanted to transition from programmer to systems engineer, I went to school to get my Master's and the company paid for most of it.

Sometimes I feel like an alien, reading about other working programmers and engineers, because everyone here has their own office, has worked here for years, is happy, enjoys great benefits, the company promotes from within, and encourages professional development.

But then I go to our "competipartners" and their offices are set up the same way, their benefits are within a marginal twist of a dial up or down here or there, and when I go to trade shows I see the same people with the same employer polo shirts year after year after year.

The only reason I'll leave my employer is if, in a couple of years after I transition to "senior" systems engineer there isn't a position on a contract or program that will support my labor category.

Maybe aerospace is the field you want to look at getting into? There are no "rock star" programmers, just people who work 9-5.

It is not really appealing to most younger folks because we aren't a bunch of "hip young urban professionals" with MacBooks clustered around a communal workspace in a downtown startup incubator in a converted loft/warehouse lit by faux edison light bulbs in iron-pipe light fixtures with a pinball machine and some scooters in the corner.

We're a bunch of old dudes in a generic office park. And we're paid in "lots of money" instead of "a little bit of money with tons of stock and a promise".

Google/Microsoft/amazon/facebook/other big top companies seem to only have people work in group settings, but the problem is they pay a metric shitload of money. I've worked for several of them on this list. Work at one of those for 10 years and you might be fixed for life. I also used to work at Microsoft back when we all had private offices but I was lucky enough to be there when the stock was steadily appreciating.

I recently went to a startup but I don't know if they will make it, and I would love a company with private offices and a bit of stability. But I'm afraid I'll be left looking at the other companies left i haven't de-FAANG-ed yet. What is the name of your company?

I wish I knew. Looking at this user's post history (only two pages) it appears to be defence-aviation related.

Amazon doesn’t pay much.

i thought including the stock amazon pays well these days, better than microsoft. that's what my friend working there says.

> i thought including the stock amazon pays well these days

Stock is not pay. As the old saying goes, "A bird in the hand is worth N in the bush, where N is a value that people whose profession is to guess the value of N cannot guess the value of."

>Stock is not pay

It's not, but it'd also be foolish to ignore that RSU's can be fairly easily exercised and translate into real money. It's probably more accurate to say that the stock isn't worth the face value, but RSU's certainly does have value at public companies.

Amazon stock is pay. It has a monetary value that it is easily convertible into. If your point is that RSUs have vesting schedules, annual salary does too, in the form of paychecks.

What is the salary growth like? My experience is that the only way to get more than a 3% raise per year is to job hop. Salary compression and inversion are real.

3%! Luxury! Best I've pulled off for sitting around is 0.9%pa.

"I have an offer from OtherCo. But I'd like to stay here. Could you match it?"

"We don't negotiate salaries."

I worked at a competitor to GD for about 7 years. Had a great career trajectory until a managerial fuckup cost the company one third of the revenue and they had to ax 50 percent of the staff. Be careful, those big, stable companies can tend to lull you into thinking things can't go left quickly. They most assuredly can, and do.

I applaud that your company promotes from within and encourages professional development. I think that is more likely to happen when a company can rely on most employees sticking around for a while, which they probably will because of the opportunities provided inside the company. A virtuous cycle.

However, it also sounds extremely expensive to run a business with everything you described. It might only be possible because you appear to work in the group of large corporations that exist off of a government contracting system that has been criticized as being fundamentally broken. Projects cost way too much, take too long, and are frequently late and over budget anyway. I've heard a lot of that has to do with the government constantly asking for changes and asking for too much, but whatever way you slice it the only reason it works is because it is basically non-competitive. Does your company create successful consumer products?

Spacex is aerospace too, but they are disrupting their industry. I wonder if all the engineers there get their own offices and stay in the same roles for years, with the same technology.

I don't have enough experience to know which works best, letting engineers become professionals in their niche, making the business not very adaptable but having some deep strengths, or moving fast and breaking things, being adaptable and fast moving, but have some crappy code gluing things together that will need replacing in a few years.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com