Then, there's the PR disaster that's bound to come up once it gets official. In a single move, Google would be conveying how far it has moved from its foundational values. I fail to see how this would be a net positive for the company.
Then, there's the PR disaster that's bound to come up once it gets official. In a single move, Google would be conveying how far it has moved from its foundational values. I fail to see how this would be a net positive for the company.
Revenue.
>Then, there's the PR disaster that's bound to come up once it gets official.
Does the public care about privacy? Does the public understand or care about China's firewall? Does the public have an attention span long enough to ruin Google's reputation?
Does the public care about anyone in China's privacy?
The answer is certainly “yes”. There’s a difference between caring and having any power to do anything about it.
It’s time to move on from Consumer activism. This nonsense of blaming people for their purchasing decisions is so rotten and useless. Judging others this way requires vain assumptions and we can do so much better.
> Does the public have an attention span long enough to ruin Google's reputation?
is a resounding ‘no’ to me right now. It is as if these days many people have the same attitude you do, wanting someone else to do the legwork to bring societal change. That’s a good way to wind up with totalitarianism, and that’s how you end up with a president for life dictating what information citizens can and cannot consume.
‘Consumer activism’ is, in so many words, not activism. It describes the effort of working towards greater change through purchasing decisions. It’s a liberal rationalization common in capitalist societies that fails to account for the systemic limitations of the consumer voice. The issues with it are many, but I’ll list a few:
- It’s dependent on a person’s spending power, which is dependent on their capital wealth, which is dependent on their endorsement of the system as a whole.
- It shames those in poverty who cannot afford to participate and generates greater class divide.
- It relies on the transparency of the business entities to definite itself. If Google doesn’t tell us how evil it is, we cannot know the importance of avoiding their services.
- It relies on the media to expose misgivings, but the media relies on the misgivers to pay their bills. You get the point.
- It places a burden on the well-meaning by insisting they deny opportunities available to their competitors.
- It pits individuals against one another, undermining the solidarity needed for lasting change.
I think GP was downvoted because he criticized consumer activism and not just what he meant to criticize: Making change by purchasing decisions. I've generally switched to his perspective. For about a decade I felt (and acted) more like you. That experience taught me how poor a strategy it is. The success stories via boycotts are a fairly small minority. Most attempts at change via boycotts fail. It's incredibly hard even to start one.
A lot of shaming is involved, and it rarely works. People don't like to feel ashamed. As he said in his response to you, it does quickly degrade to infighting amongst consumers and a lot of energy is wasted there that could be used in alternative strategies.
It requires people to be very knowledgeable, and I saw mostly failures even amongst highly educated folks. To understand an issue, connect all the dots, etc takes a lot of effort. Most people want someone else (government agency, consumer watchdog, etc) to do all the work.
That's not to say broad media campaigns are a bad idea - I think they are necessary. But much more often than not, companies will win on the purchasing decisions battle.
Yes, but the there is a lot of ignorance and misinformation. I have faith that the public at large will eventually come to grips the surrounding issues.
We pay attention to the big ticket events shown to us by the media (Tianamen Square, the occasional artist, etc.), but I seriously doubt very many people are concerned with the average person over there, since there's no easy way to package that up for a tweet.
I mean, I'd like them to be able to have it, but I have literally zero impact on any of those discussions. Since I can't really do anything about it, I don't fret about it.
Most are probably wealthy, to the point they don't really need to work. All of them can figure out how to covertly contact journalists. And at least a few of them are starting to have qualms about the negative consequences of industry ignoring the social implications in pursuit of profit.
Well that's just not true.
> is not solely in the purview of Google's flawless hiring system
Well that's not what was asserted at all.
> [...] have been created by many not-a-stanford-degree-toting individual
And neither was that.
PS: However, when what you say is literally wrong I don’t think it deserves a detailed response.
"PS:" Since we're critiquing responses, your initial response should have never existed. It provided nothing of value to the conversation. Odd that you would provide assessment of other's comments... but thank you.
Might != Must. I would happy let honest confusion slide, but you seem to be having trouble using the English language ;0
PS: Now, if you want to elevate the conversion avoid saying dumb things that get dumb responses. Sure, you can continue to whine, but don't expect to get any respect that way.
Edit: oh, and here you go, bozo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry%27s_law
Truly, a glorious use of everyone's time.
> Well that's just not true.
Is not an argument. When you say nothing of value their is nothing to respond to.
My bad, I was assuming this was reasonably civil just snarky. But, I guess that’s not ok.
I have been working at one of the FAANGs in SV for almost 15 years and no, this is absolutely not right. Only less than 5% of my colleagues "don't need to work". A lot of smart people I know would happily work for Google even after it goes ahead with China plans.
> And at least a few of them are starting to have qualms...
This is true. But that number is just a tiny, albeit loud, minority.
Does the tech community care about privacy? Google tracks users on an industrial scale. Yet most people in the tech community shrug their shoulders and say 'so what?'. Or they rush to Google's defence. (Does a giant multi-billion dollar company need your defence?)
Google has a peculiar slant on privacy - they seems to think it's all about security and nothing else. You can't have privacy without security, but security by itself does not equal privacy. It's the equivalent of saying we'll track you to death (and save it to our servers), but you can rest assured that your personal information will never leak. The tech community happily accepts that as perfectly fine.
MBAs vs humans. I hope the humans win.
Consumer activism and job shaming is a moot effort. Useless.
What have they ever accomplished?
The only way to make a difference here is by standing together.
Maaybe. I'm not sure how this breaks down actually. Obviously Facebook, Amazon, Netflix and Google (and probably Twitter and a few others) are competing over one pool of candidates. But that that really/fully overlap with the pool that Apple and Microsoft are competing over? But as long as people are beating down the door to get in and look mainly at the free food and massages rather than the "big picture" why would they worry?
I'm finding this hard to believe. China has over a billion people. Google would be insane to ignore it.