How to Make Visa Obey Your Every Desire: The Credit Card Concierge Experiment
fourhourworkweek.com
fourhourworkweek.com
I've recently become rather disheartened at just how little "extra" it takes to impress American's these days. Many societies around the world take it for granted that services is a part of...well..."service". For example, when I was in Turkey with my wife, we were a just your average cafe. We really like the little tea spoons that they had, and wanted some for home. We asked the waiter if the cafe had any extra they would mind selling us. He told us that the ones they had were all dinged and used, and wouldn't it be better to have some brand new spoons? We agreed, and he sent one of the other boys working in the back down to the local store to buy some for us while we sat and sipped our tea.
Ordinary little cafe...nothing really that out of the ordinary...so why is this so foreign in America?
And you're right, this idea is very foreign only in places like America and the UK.
This point wouldnt even be a matter of discussion in countries like that. Its so normal.
1. Even at places like McDonalds the cashiers are incredibly friendly and attentive. They even bring the food to you if you go sit down.
2. At the exit to a car garage I lived near, there would be a worker who would take your ticket from you as you pull up to the exit, and put it in a machine. He would treat you like a king.
On #2 I agree Japan sucks, but I think the US sucks on that point as well, especially in places where young people (~16 years of age) are working. Understandably it may their first job so they may be overly nervous and cautious with what service they agree to (only ones dictated to them), but it does damage customer relations.
1. How much more money do westerners travelling to Turkey make yearly, vs. native Turks? You might get overcharged, but it's not like you can't afford it.
2. You might get overcharged, but it's still cheaper than it would be in richer countries.
3. Most importantly, countries like Turkey tend (in my limited experience) to have a less fixed price structure. Bartering (at least in the markets) is completely beyond my ability, since this isn't something I grew up with in North America, but I have an Israeli friend who will back-and-forth with a vendor until he offers to sell for one tenth of his original price (and he's still making a killing).
The first two points make me out to be an apologist, but it's not like he's charging you $10 more for the tea vs. locals he's using his massive margins to throw in a $0.50 set of tea spoons for free so you'll tell your friends.
1. How much more money do westerners travelling to Turkey make yearly, vs. native Turks? You might get overcharged, but it's not like you can't afford it.
2. You might get overcharged, but it's still cheaper than it would be in richer countries.
3. Most importantly, countries like Turkey tend (in my limited experience) to have a less fixed price structure. Bartering (at least in the markets) is completely beyond my ability, since this isn't something I grew up with in North America, but I have an Israeli friend who will back-and-forth with a vendor until he offers to sell for one tenth of his original price (and he's still making a killing).
The first two points make me out to be an apologist, but it's not like he's charging you $10 more for the tea vs. locals and using his massive margins to throw in a $0.50 set of tea spoons for free so you'll tell your friends.
I guess an analogy is that Turkey is in Europe, and being a European it would be very easy for me to say "the service in the US is way superior to the service I get in Europe" and then I could add "but at least in Europe I don't get someone telling me how much I should tip when I get the bill like I did in America." But the truth is that the tipping culture is nowhere in America that I've visited like it is in New York and the standard attitude is actually very similar to the UK, which itself is way different to somewhere like Italy or Germany. But hey, let's not let the truth get in the way of a good discussion that is rooted in anecdotal evidence.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the service you receive is based on a lot of things, the least of which is the country you are in. In fact the most important part of how well you judge the service you receive is you and your expectations. That is something I realised from similar 'anecdotal discussions' with my fellow Europeans when I rave about the service I receive in the US - "they would never let your beer glass go empty for an hour like they do here!" - "yet but they also come over to interrupt you every 5 minutes to ask you if everything is okay.. when I need something, I will ask for it!"
Is there variation in the quality of service you receive from one place to the next? Sure! It'll vary from one cafe to the next. The point I was trying to make, however, is somewhat deeper. I'm not just saying that service is better in Turkey than in the U.S. I'm saying that the expectation of service is part of the culture in Turkey, not just a nice "perk" like it is in the U.S. and many European nations.
You can walk into a tailors to buy a suit, they'll get you a chair, sit you down, bring you tea or coffee, sometimes sweets or cakes, bring everything to you, ask you what types of things you like, don't like, listen to it, make suggestions. It's an incredible experience. It's not just tailors either, most larger ticket places do this but almost everywhere does this on some scale.
If you ever get invited into a Turk's home, don't eat beforehand and don't forget to take your shoes off. It can be incredibly overwhelming but it's just a fundamental part of their culture.
True. Another valuable one - if your bank doesn't suck, you can probably meet with the branch VP and talk personal finance with him and get some advice on credit scores, what accounts he recommends, tax accounts, credit cards, etc. I used to meet with the head of the Citizen's Bank branch in Boston where I was near every two months or so for a quick chat, and he was always friendly and cool. Sometimes he'd ask me about technology and I'd answer some questions. I didn't have crazy money in the bank, I think any customer service-focused bank would do this for you if you're friendly and cool.
I've used the concierge service for some awesome things:
1. I knew I was going to propose to my GF in St. Augustine on a long weekend but I'd never been there. So I asked for a complete scouting report. Lists of good restaurants (plus reservations), good places to ask her, etc. They came through in awesome style.
2. We were shopping in Chicago and she fell in love with, but didn't buy, a Coach purse. Her birthday was a month later so, back home, a thousand miles away, I went to buy that purse. Sold out. They checked near by stores: Sold Out. I check websites: Sold Out.
I called my Concierge. They contacted Coach for me. They verified that every single Coach store was sold out of this purse, when the next shipment was coming in, which stores would get the purses from that very next shippment, and how much shipping would cost if I ordered from the closest one and had it delivered.
3. When a Generic prescription drug became suddenly unavailable, I asked about "why". They refused to help because of the questions Medical nature. Even when I told them it was just personal FYI and I wasn't actually taking the medicine (a lie, but i thought it might work)
I suspect that this is a liability issue.
"You want us to call and tell you you’re a good person?"
"That’s right."
So, was this the inspiration for Awesomeness Reminders? http://www.awesomenessreminders.com/
The money to do this comes from somewhere. My location guesses: increased interest rates, and increased POS charges. All of which ultimately means less money for you, and less for everywhere you buy things.
Another interesting thing I've read somewhere, and would be interested in a link if someone knows of it: all/many of these higher-perk cards charge the merchants more when they're used. It's best for businesses if you use the most basic cards, or far better if you use cash.
But I just dislike credit card companies. And their "rating" systems. I must be cranky right now or something, because I feel like spreading the dislike :\
Banks, like all other large corporations, already have epic overhead. A few guys in India using Google and a few people to talk to you on the phone does not make much difference to their bottom line. (But it does impress people.)
(Oh, and what is "HR compliance"? No idea, but I'm sure every bank has at least 5000 people that do it.)
But the most annoying thing about it is that it's difficult not to be part of it. If you have credit cards or not, you will have a credit score and that score will be used when you want to buy a house for example…
For a couple of years after moving here, I was using either cash or a debit card, but I switched to credit card for a lot of things mostly because you kind of have to play in the credit score game.
If you don't want to participate in the credit system and you ignore your FICO, you'll notice when you (a) buy/rent your home and (b) get a cell phone. I think that may be about it.
You're right, to an extent, about the cars: you will get poorer terms for your car with a wrecked FICO score. You will not however be at any risk of not getting the car, unlike that apartment building you really like, which simply won't rent to you because of your credit.
It happens more often than you think, corporate espionage, money laundering, theft of credit cards details, customer identities, etc. have all happened this way.
A low credit score should not be a disqualifier, but should be explained. If someone had gotten divorced or medical expenses or something, that isn't a concern (and I would consider advancing money to clear it up for any clearance investigations later), but if it is due to gambling, drug, etc. addiction, I would be very dubious unless there were a way to show it was not an ongoing risk. (similarly, there are some criminal convictions I would consider benign or even slightly positive, and others which would be disqualifies)
Granted, this was 10 years ago, so things might have changed since then. But I doubt it.
It's what you might call "artificial artificial intelligence", they've discovered a business model that lets you have a conversation with a search engine in plain English.
One lucky enough to have a Bloomberg terminal (providing financial news and information services) have access to a helpdesk built into the software via the messaging system (to query data, news, etc). This helpdesk has had huge appeal in other areas - booking restaurants, book recommendations, ideas for things to do on holiday - for many many years.
When paying at least $15k/year for such a terminal (often much more), and a client often having hundreds installed, if not thousands, it is a beautiful example of going a little extra for a lot of goodwill.
Bloomberg actually took quite an interesting approach to staffing their helpdesk, everyone (except for developers) who joins the company from university has to spend a few months working on the help desk. So all the help desk staff are highly educated locals rather than outsourced labour. They probably have some of the most capable helpdesk staff in the technology industry.
examples: Find out if [your] anonymously uploaded website X violates anything in patent Y? What is the contact information for CEO in some big company Z? I could easily think of lots of others!
Might be worth a try at least and see how far they can really go :)
In my review, the providers had little familiarity with the data security controls of the credit card industry (aka PCI). One was PCI certified, one was not but 'working on it'. The one that had been certified had somehow convinced their QSA (the PCI auditor) to not review the systems their agents used, only the core infrastructure.
The provider with home-based agents let their agents use their own computers to service callers, and it was quiet possible that the agent had never met anyone from the hiring company face-to-face.
Now, as a matter of course, probably only 1-3% of the calls actually required the agent take a credit card number (to order something for the customer). Most of the time the agents were just answering questions. Most of the agents would never see the caller's credit card number from the issuing bank.
From a information security point-of-view I wouldn't have any problem using the providers I reviewed (although, even as a frequent traveller, I've never had an occasion where it seemed like it would be useful), but I'd stop short of giving them my credit card number.
I asked him if there were any local stores that sold caffeine-free Diet Mountain Dew. He put me on hold for a couple minutes and came back, asking if I had tried Wal-Mart or grocery stores. I told him I hadn't seen it there. He said that he found some Facebook page talking about caffeine-free Mountain Dew, but he was unable to access it because Facebook was blocked from his location. He suggested I search on google for it myself. He apologized for being unable to help me.
So I searched and the second hit pointed me to http://www.pepsiproductfacts.com/storelocator/index600.html and there is a store 19 miles from me that sells the "extremely limited" caffeine-free Diet Mountain Dew.
I'm not impressed.
In the comments section, user feb basically asked HN if our users could verify this is legit, but he didn't get a response then. Anyone?
I could look into it tomorrow.
I'm curious to know what they can really do for you. His examples were mostly finding and compiling information that wasn't necessarily hard to find but just annoying or possibly tedious.
That in itself could be interesting to take advantage of, especially if they're fast.
But could you do something a bit more advanced: let's say you're traveling for X days somewhere, maybe you could ask for them to put together for you a complete program of what's good to see there, places to eat, train schedule, while considering details like days museums are closed, weather... That sounds a bit much but if they can actually do that kind of things, it can get interesting.
What about patent or trademark search? Salary/stock options comparison in your sector? Best price for specific car? How can I jailbreak my phone? Can you send a letter to my landlord about the broken dishwasher? I'm curious about the limits really...
It is nice to have somebody look for flights, hotels or restaurants for you, but in general by doing it yourself you get it done a lot more quickly. 5 minutes to findband book a hotel using the phone browser, vs. about the same time on the phone, and waiting them 12 hours to get it done...
I use the Amex Platinum concierge when I travel. "I need reservations at good restaurants for these three nights." They lock in the reservations and email me a schedule. Then I go back and try to use open table and/or trip advisor to find better stuff and cancel/replace as necessary.
I often get the feeling I am Doing It Wrong, and wish people would share the right way.
On the other hand, this article pretty much sold me into determining if I need a Visa Signature card.
The reference desk at a major metropolitan library would probably be able to field some of the inquiries the author tried, and without charging whatever ungodly annual fee Visa is probably getting for that card.
Will they order and buy stuff for you (e.g. from Amazon), or just tell you where it is?